Author Topic: New Chips From Intel...  (Read 807 times)

LongJon

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New Chips From Intel...
« on: July 06, 2018, 04:49:33 PM »
https://www.techradar.com/news/its-official-9th-generation-intel-coffee-lake-s-processors-coming-later-this-year

When do you think they are coming?  And without really knowing do you expect the 9700k or the 9900k to be the best gaming chip?  I know the 9700k is rumored to have 6 cores/12 lanes and the 9900 8 cores/16 lanes but as we've seen with chips in the past when it comes to games sometimes more cores doesn't = better performance due to optimization and other factors.

I'm also curious when Apple will release their 2018 Mac lineup.  I'm looking to get a new iMac as my main computer at my business but I keep reading/seeing rumors that they are going to completely redesign the iMac for 2018.  Who knows they may just give it a spec bump but I wonder which chips apple would use if they new PC's release say in October?  These chips or the Coffee Lake 8700k as the top option?

Ari Altman

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Re: New Chips From Intel...
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2018, 06:24:00 PM »
These are just a re-brand. Intel is on the hook to the OEMs to supply new CPUs every year. The 9000-series is so truly identical to the 8000-series that Intel is actually referring to them as 8th-generation CPUs. In other words, there's nothing new here, same Skylake architecture that debuted in 2015 with the Core i7-6700K. If there is indeed an 8-core CPU, that will be big news, but it's all just rumors at this point. And since you asked specifically about games, I can almost promise you it won't be the best gaming chip. The 8700K will remain dominant as it can hit higher clock speeds. In fact, for a pure gaming PC, the 8600K is pretty amazing.

Couldn't tell you much about Apple except that in two years, all Macs will run on iPhone processors, and Apple will abandon (edit: Mac OS). Would I invest in a new Mac today? Nope.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 02:07:56 PM by Ari Altman »

LongJon

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Re: New Chips From Intel...
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2018, 07:14:16 PM »
These are just a re-brand. Intel is on the hook to the OEMs to supply new CPUs every year. The 9000-series is so truly identical to the 8000-series that Intel is actually referring to them as 8th-generation CPUs. In other words, there's nothing new here, same Skylake architecture that debuted in 2015 with the Core i7-6700K. If there is indeed an 8-core CPU, that will be big news, but it's all just rumors at this point. And since you asked specifically about games, I can almost promise you it won't be the best gaming chip. The 8700K will remain dominant as it can hit higher clock speeds. In fact, for a pure gaming PC, the 8600K is pretty amazing.

Couldn't tell you much about Apple except that in two years, all Macs will run on iPhone processors, and Apple will abandon iOS. Would I invest in a new Mac today? Nope.

I've heard that in time they want their computers to run on their in house chips (that they've been working on for some time but aren't ready).  Who knows.  I have a recent macbook pro and like it (i like learning about different/new (to me) operating systems).  You said Apple will abandon iOS?  I figured they'd abandon Mac OS not iOS if they abandon anything at all. 

All I'll say is this, I would never try to game on a Mac.  I would never buy a Mac for performance reasons (even though iMac pro has some interesting configurations).  I have my desktop PC for that.  But in my personal opinion, I don't use my macbook pro for gaming, just some for work and personal stuff and it does take some getting used to using but I like the way it performs.  It has a 7700k processor and a 512gb ssd.  It's pretty damn zippy.  But aside from that I do like how it integrates with my iPhone X.  iMessages, Facetime, etc are cool things to have on your computer, same thing for Mail.  Mail on Apple computers works a lot better than Mail on windows 10. 

Where I will agree with you on Apple is that I hate that they have kind of neglected the desktop/computer side of things in general.  They take too long to come out with stuff.  They usually always lag behind PC's on the hardware/processor side of things.  And the innovation seems like it has pretty much stopped with them there.  That's not to say they aren't good machines.  Overpriced I'd agree.  But good machines none the less. 

I wouldn't trade my gaming PC for anything though.  I need Windows in my life.  I've gotten very good at controlling my Macbook Pro quickly and confidently but I just know SO much about Windows.  It's almost like breathing a breath of fresh air when I turn on my gaming PC and that's where all my photos, video's, music, games, etc are at on my powerful PC and I just love it.

Ari Altman

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Re: New Chips From Intel...
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2018, 11:49:21 PM »
I mistyped that, I meant Mac OS. That will be abandoned, iOS will pick up some of its features to make it work with a computer.

LongJon

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Re: New Chips From Intel...
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2018, 09:02:17 AM »
These are just a re-brand. Intel is on the hook to the OEMs to supply new CPUs every year. The 9000-series is so truly identical to the 8000-series that Intel is actually referring to them as 8th-generation CPUs. In other words, there's nothing new here, same Skylake architecture that debuted in 2015 with the Core i7-6700K. If there is indeed an 8-core CPU, that will be big news, but it's all just rumors at this point. And since you asked specifically about games, I can almost promise you it won't be the best gaming chip. The 8700K will remain dominant as it can hit higher clock speeds. In fact, for a pure gaming PC, the 8600K is pretty amazing.

Couldn't tell you much about Apple except that in two years, all Macs will run on iPhone processors, and Apple will abandon (edit: Mac OS). Would I invest in a new Mac today? Nope.

Just out of curiosity (because I like to know more/learn) what's the big deal with the process these chips are built on?  I see where you've said (and many others to the rumors regarding these new chips) that they'll be built on the same 14nm process and they'll be labeled 14nm++.

If there are noticeable gains while having similar or less power draw, why does it matter if it's built on a new architecture or not?  Or is basically what you mean is that won't happen UNTIL a new generation post skylake comes out? 

I think this article basically says what you were saying.

https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3035407/intel-9th-gen-core-i9-coming-this-quarter

How far away do you think we truly are for the 'next gen' processors arrive?  A year?  2 years?  I haven't looked at intel's roadmap in a while and even if I did it's so unreliable and changes constantly I figured I'd ask you lol. 

On another note, you think Nvidia will unveil their graphics cards at gamescom next month?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 09:04:20 AM by LongJon »

Ari Altman

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Re: New Chips From Intel...
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2018, 10:42:45 AM »
Intel cannot achieve lower power draw and higher speeds until it successfully develops a new architecture. While continuing to label is CPUs with the same TDP (e.g., 95W), its six-core processors use far more than the four-core models that preceded them.

I'd guess that we won't see a new architecture until Fall 2019, and even then, it will trickle out and generally be unavailable until early 2020. Remember, Intel ALWAYS has to announce something in the August/September timeframe to keep OEMs happy. It has done that without fail for the past decade, even though truly new products arrived only a couple of times.

Nvidia most likely will announce at Gamescom, but due to a huge surplus (overproduction) of Pascal GPUs due to the instant crash of the crypto economy, it needs to clear the channel. Expect Turing to hit store shelves in late September or early October.

LongJon

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Re: New Chips From Intel...
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2018, 03:13:26 PM »
Intel cannot achieve lower power draw and higher speeds until it successfully develops a new architecture. While continuing to label is CPUs with the same TDP (e.g., 95W), its six-core processors use far more than the four-core models that preceded them.

I'd guess that we won't see a new architecture until Fall 2019, and even then, it will trickle out and generally be unavailable until early 2020. Remember, Intel ALWAYS has to announce something in the August/September timeframe to keep OEMs happy. It has done that without fail for the past decade, even though truly new products arrived only a couple of times.

Nvidia most likely will announce at Gamescom, but due to a huge surplus (overproduction) of Pascal GPUs due to the instant crash of the crypto economy, it needs to clear the channel. Expect Turing to hit store shelves in late September or early October.

Apple announced their 2018 Macbook Pro's today with the new... well current i should say, line of cofee lake intel processors.  Just a spec bump basically.  Couple other improvements.  Has the ability to have 32gb of ram now (never been possible before on a Mac) and some improvements to the display like true tone or whatever... No mention of the iMac but yesterday an update came about from an insider saying the iMac will get an update with significant display/chassis improvements so who knows what that means.  Idk if it'll be a redesign with a spec bump or just true tone mumbo jumbo with a spec bump... But either way I know you don't care for Mac's so I'll stop there lol.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel-i9-release-date-specs-performance

That article is from a couple days ago and is just speculation on the rehashed 9700/9900k processors.  Doesn't seem like they are that far off but like you said who knows how much of a benefit they'll be able to offer.  Rumored to have 2 more cores on the 9900k but I'm curious if they 9700k stays a 6 core/12 thread CPU similarly to the 8700k what the real differences will be between those two?


LongJon

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Re: New Chips From Intel...
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2018, 04:29:22 PM »
Seems like the next 6 months-year will be about core wars.  A lot of stuff heating up rumor wise about the processors i mentioned above, 9900k,9700k and so on... Saying the 9900k will hit 5ghz with overclock and base clock will be 3.6.  I'm curious why when more cores are added these top end chips with more cores and threads seem to have a lower single core performance?  I know on my 7700k it's base is like 4.2?  And just mildly overclocked it's at 4.5 which is where I've kept it since I got it.  I know it's only a 4 core/8 thread processor but I have a hard time sacrificing my single core performance to some extent.  Why is that the case?  If rumors are true these new processors could be announced in the next week with the new graphics cards not far behind.  I'm wondering if the 9900k or 9700k will replace the 8700k as the go to gaming cpu?  Curious if it's worth the upgrade but I know that's a good ways off until people test it all out and everything in addition to their 'paper launch' timing it could be a while.

Ari Altman

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Re: New Chips From Intel...
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2018, 06:11:02 PM »
I'm watching the rumors closely, but the clearest sign I've seen of something new coming is that stock of current CPUs is running low.

Actually, the higher core processors aren't necessarily slower in single threaded work. The lower clock is the minimum it will operate at, but it takes a lot to drive it down that slow. In practice, an 8700K is almost always faster than a 7700K. It's possible, however that the 9900k will run so hot that it can't keep up. More cores in the same space is always going to run into that risk.

By the way, the rumors that the 9700K will be 8 cores without hyperthreading makes no sense. It could end up slower than an 8700K in a lot of cases. What would make much more sense would be:

4 core pentium
4 core HT core i3
6 core core i5
6 core HT core i7
8 core HT core i9

We'll see very soon!

LongJon

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Re: New Chips From Intel...
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2018, 12:56:21 PM »
I'm watching the rumors closely, but the clearest sign I've seen of something new coming is that stock of current CPUs is running low.

Actually, the higher core processors aren't necessarily slower in single threaded work. The lower clock is the minimum it will operate at, but it takes a lot to drive it down that slow. In practice, an 8700K is almost always faster than a 7700K. It's possible, however that the 9900k will run so hot that it can't keep up. More cores in the same space is always going to run into that risk.

By the way, the rumors that the 9700K will be 8 cores without hyperthreading makes no sense. It could end up slower than an 8700K in a lot of cases. What would make much more sense would be:

4 core pentium
4 core HT core i3
6 core core i5
6 core HT core i7
8 core HT core i9

We'll see very soon!

https://www.techspot.com/news/75887-intel-shows-off-xeon-roadmap-through-2020-pushes.html

Well so much for 10nm coming anytime soon according to that article lol.  Looks like in Intel land we'll be on the 14nm process for some time to come. 

Regarding what you said above, so when a new product comes out and they are talking about the processor and they usually state what Ghz it runs at, the number usually shown is the lowest it will run at?  Depending on reviews and what not I very well could upgrade from the 7700k to either an 8700k/9700k/9900k.  I obviously like having the best if everything works as it should but with icelake and the 10nm process being that far out and me doing more and more video editing for my real estate business and as a hobby gaming, I'd like even more performance.

Right now I have:

32gb of DDR4 3000 RAM
i7-7700k overclocked to a consistent 4.5ghz
EVGA GTX 1080Ti FTW3

And honestly I love my system.  Everything seems very zippy and what not, but when it comes to video editing it takes a while.  But I WOULD NOT want to take a step back in gaming in anyway.  For some reason I feel like I will when I upgrade to these new higher core count processors.  Are my concerns validate or am I just flat out wrong?  What would you do if you were me?

Ari Altman

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Re: New Chips From Intel...
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2018, 01:05:52 PM »
What would I do if I were you? One thing I would not do is go for the 9700K, which is likely to be slower than the 8700K. It's going to be a dud of a product.

If you're itching to upgrade now, I'd do it, but go for the Core i7-8086K, which is guaranteed to overclock to 5GHz. You'll get a minimum of 50% performance improvement in your video editing, and far better gaming performance too. Pair it with a great motherboard like the Asus Z370-E and you'll be set (remember, you can't use your old motherboard).

The 9900K will be interesting, but my bet is that it won't clock nearly as well, and Intel is likely to price it very high. In any event, if it turns out to be a winner, you can upgrade then, given that the Z370 and Z390 boards will be identical in everything but name.

LongJon

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Re: New Chips From Intel...
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2018, 04:23:20 PM »
What's your thoughts on the new 2080?  I assume you're about to be editing your guide builds soon haha.

Ari Altman

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Re: New Chips From Intel...
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2018, 06:15:59 PM »
What's your thoughts on the new 2080?  I assume you're about to be editing your guide builds soon haha.

Find the link and discuss right here!

LongJon

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Re: New Chips From Intel...
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2018, 10:30:03 AM »
Interesting stuff Ari.  Also interesting they are measuring these new cards with different metrics than before.  I don't like it lol.  I guess I'm just not used to it.  So if I read that article right, Nvidia's board partners cards can't be overclocked?  So the Nvidia's cards themselves will be the best cards?  Or at least their FE overclocked ones?  That kinda sucks.  I love my triple fan EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3. 

I'm looking forward to some reviews.  I'm curious if I should just stick with my 1080 Ti and skip this generation or bite the bullet and get one after some reviews come out.  I know I'll be waiting a while but I'm okay with that.

Now I just need Intel to hurry up and launch their new processors the first of October so I can look at everything on paper lol.

Ari Altman

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Re: New Chips From Intel...
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2018, 12:05:23 PM »
Interesting stuff Ari.  Also interesting they are measuring these new cards with different metrics than before.  I don't like it lol.  I guess I'm just not used to it.  So if I read that article right, Nvidia's board partners cards can't be overclocked?  So the Nvidia's cards themselves will be the best cards?  Or at least their FE overclocked ones?  That kinda sucks.  I love my triple fan EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3. 

I'm looking forward to some reviews.  I'm curious if I should just stick with my 1080 Ti and skip this generation or bite the bullet and get one after some reviews come out.  I know I'll be waiting a while but I'm okay with that.

Now I just need Intel to hurry up and launch their new processors the first of October so I can look at everything on paper lol.

Pre-orders from board partners are up, and all RTX 2080 cards are $790 and above, while RTX 2080 Ti cards start at $1150. The EVGA 2080 Ti XC with undisclosed clocks is on sale for $1,150, off its $1,200 retail price, in case you're interested.

Most board partners haven't disclosed overclocks, but I have a feeling they won't exceed what Nvidia is offering on the Founders Edition.