Author Topic: SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500  (Read 6290 times)

cloudbuster

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SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500
« on: September 16, 2017, 02:09:54 PM »
Hello,
Can i get some tips from user that have tried the following cases.
Silverstone SG13, Cooler Master Elite 110 and Fractal Design Core 500.

I would like to built a small computer for gaming mostly MMO games.
I dont see myself messing with OC settings so it would run stock.
Here what I plan on using, basically would it overheat on the smallest case on my list? would long time performance degrade due to thermals?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor  ($289.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG - C7 40.5 CFM CPU Cooler  ($26.99 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Motherboard: ASRock - X370 Gaming-ITX/ac Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard  ($149.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory  ($153.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($147.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: Zotac - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB Mini Video Card  ($269.99 @ B&H)
Power Supply: Corsair - SF 450W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply  ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1128.82
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-16 16:58 EDT-0400

Any advise thanks.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 11:17:26 PM by Ari Altman »

Ari Altman

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Re: SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2017, 11:14:01 PM »
Welcome to the Forum, Cloudbuster. This would work fine in any of the cases you listed, but you'll need the SilverStone PP08 SFX-to-ATX adapter to mount the power supply.

You can save some money going with the ASRock B350 ITX motherboard rather than the Z370. There's really no advantage to a Z370 board in an ITX system.

Also, I'd suggest you avoid the CoolerMaster Elite 110. It's much larger in overall volume than the SilverStone SG13, costs the same, yet can't fit the same high-end hardware. To put it simply, it's a bad design.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 11:19:09 PM by Ari Altman »

cloudbuster

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Re: SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2017, 08:25:03 AM »
thanks,

do you think I should use the money saved from the B350 board and adding the difference to get a 1070 GPU?

also I just noticed the RAM is not listed for the board under the QVL should I be worried about that?
if above is not a concern I think I would switch to corsair Vengeance LPX due to their Low profile that way it would be easier to swap coolers.
now 3000 or 3200Mhz?
https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-3000MHz-Systems-CMK16GX4M2B3000C15B/dp/B014JESKRW

https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-3200MHz-Desktop-Memory/dp/B01EI5ZRQY

I will get the SG13 then since it seem to be tiny and stay away from the Elite 110.

Thanks.

Ari Altman

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Re: SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2017, 10:19:59 AM »
thanks,

do you think I should use the money saved from the B350 board and adding the difference to get a 1070 GPU?

also I just noticed the RAM is not listed for the board under the QVL should I be worried about that?
if above is not a concern I think I would switch to corsair Vengeance LPX due to their Low profile that way it would be easier to swap coolers.
now 3000 or 3200Mhz?
https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-3000MHz-Systems-CMK16GX4M2B3000C15B/dp/B014JESKRW

https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-3200MHz-Desktop-Memory/dp/B01EI5ZRQY

I will get the SG13 then since it seem to be tiny and stay away from the Elite 110.

Thanks.

While the B350 will save you about $25, that doesn't really go very far in getting you a GTX 1070. You'll still need to put in an extra $100 or so, and while the 1070 is much faster (by ~35%), whether you want to spend the money is up to you. The best price right now is on the Zotac GTX 1070 Mini, which is $415 on Amazon.

As for RAM, with Ryzen, it is wise to go with RAM that's on the QVL list, especially ultra-high-speed RAM. Corsair Vengeance LPX is the perfect RAM for an ITX build, and Corsair's 2x8GB DDR4-3000 kit was used in the SG13 assembly guide on TBG. It fits nicely, which  the G.Skill kit may not. Note that DDR4-3000 runs at 2933MHz on Ryzen, as 3000MHz is not an available speed. Given RAM prices, it still makes more sense than DDR4-3200.

Another thing to note - the reason Ryzen is not featured in TBG's ITX builds is the lack of ITX coolers that are compatible with the AM4 socket. If you actually want to use the Cryorig C7, you'll need to order an AM4 upgrade kit, available from the Cryorig website.

cloudbuster

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Re: SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2017, 10:51:36 AM »
that exactly the card I was looking at, after changing the board to the B350 and card to the 1070 the overall price difference is only $104.9 for that I will definely keep the 1070 in the list.

Now to research all the RAM available to this board and see which one is a low profile, unless you have another board I should look into.

Somewhere I read that the Cryorig C1 could fit in this case with a SFX psu if that true I dont know, but I think I would try it myself.
That why now I am looking at low profile RAM. The C1 say to have a 42mm clearance for RAM so I am not sure if a 42mm RAM would fit or would that mean it will be touching the heatsink.

thank for the advice, I will look at 3000Mhz RAM, let me go back to the list https://www.asrock.com/MB/AMD/Fatal1ty%20AB350%20Gaming-ITXac/index.asp#Memory
and see which one from there is Low profile.

well this seem more difficult than what I expected.
I found this RAM at 40mm should leave 2mm of play.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232530
It does not come in 3000Mhz what do you think?
would it using 1.3V be a concern?

can you confirm that with the SFX psu and Silverstone adapter you have 84mm for a CPU cooler?
I was thinking on the http://www.cryorig.com/c1_us.php
what do you think?

I just notice the SG08 and I am not sure if that could be considered and upgrade to the SG13 it seem to have a little bit more room inside.

I will get the AM4 upgrade kit thanks.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 03:35:09 PM by cloudbuster »

Ari Altman

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Re: SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2017, 05:57:35 PM »
The Cryorig C7 is tiny and will fit in any case, while the Cryorig C1 almost certainly WILL NOT work. I would not try it if I were you. I have tested many other coolers that use that design, and none would fit in the SG13 case. And that G.Skill memory you found is much taller than Vengeance LPX. Trust me - you don't want to mess with this, as you'll quickly get into big trouble trying to find RAM short enough to fit. The only way overhanging coolers like the C1 work is if you can mount them with the overhang at the top of the motherboard, and you can't do that with the SG13, as it will stick out of the case.

By the way, TBG reviewed the SG08 a long time ago, and it didn't get a high score. It's not a very good case, unfortunately. The SG13 is far better despite being cheaper.

cloudbuster

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Re: SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2017, 07:54:41 PM »
The Cryorig C7 is tiny and will fit in any case, while the Cryorig C1 almost certainly WILL NOT work. I would not try it if I were you. I have tested many other coolers that use that design, and none would fit in the SG13 case. And that G.Skill memory you found is much taller than Vengeance LPX. Trust me - you don't want to mess with this, as you'll quickly get into big trouble trying to find RAM short enough to fit. The only way overhanging coolers like the C1 work is if you can mount them with the overhang at the top of the motherboard, and you can't do that with the SG13, as it will stick out of the case.

By the way, TBG reviewed the SG08 a long time ago, and it didn't get a high score. It's not a very good case, unfortunately. The SG13 is far better despite being cheaper.

I though you mean it wont fit due to height, but you mean due to the design of overhang to one side, and that side in the SG13 would mean to the side where the side panel is sitting?
On the review it seem that with the SFX psu they were able to use a huge cooler in the SG13 the 82mm SilverStone NT-06 Pro, I wonder how it compare in this case to the Cryorig C7.

I just found a memory compatibly chart for AMD ryzen and I saw the vengeance LPX so I am pretty sure it should work just fine even that is not on the official asrock chart.
So that means I would but the Vengeance LPX back on my part list, thanks.

Thank for the heads up regarding the SG08 and I though that by having that 180mm fan would had been way better than the SG13, I also saw there a review for the Fractal core 500 I am also considering that case.

Should I stay with the SG13 or move to the Core 500?
by any chance do you have CPU, GPU temps for this two cases?

Thanks.

Ari Altman

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Re: SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2017, 09:01:12 PM »
The reason the NT06-Pro works in the SG13 is because it provides enough clearance to sit directly over the RAM, as long as it's short RAM like Vengeance LPX. Designs like the Cryorig C1, Thermalright AXP-200 and Reeven Steropes are extremely problematic in just about any ITX build. It's possible that Cryorig has designed the C1 to avoid the common problems, but because I haven't tested it, I can't tell you.

The Fractal Core 500 will run far cooler than the SG13, not because it's a better design, but because it's a much bigger case and can fit huge tower CPU coolers, and also has a fully-vented top panel. While I've tested both, I don't have comparable temperature numbers because it would never make sense to build them up similarly. They are two different cases for two different types of builds.

cloudbuster

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Re: SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 10:26:29 PM »
after reading the https://techbuyersguru.com/pc-builders-guides-assembling-ultimate-mini-pc-2017?page=1 is a shame that the 140mm fan would block the front io ports but to be honest I could live without them.
Are they easy to remove?

would you still recommend the same fan now days? (Noctua NF-A15 PWM)

to be honest I dont know why I have in mind that I want to try that C1 cooler.

worse case I could always get the Core 500 down the road but I dont see why I would have to if I choose the SG13 temp should be adequate for the components not to cook inside the case.

Ari Altman

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Re: SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2017, 08:23:36 AM »
after reading the https://techbuyersguru.com/pc-builders-guides-assembling-ultimate-mini-pc-2017?page=1 is a shame that the 140mm fan would block the front io ports but to be honest I could live without them.
Are they easy to remove?

would you still recommend the same fan now days? (Noctua NF-A15 PWM)

to be honest I dont know why I have in mind that I want to try that C1 cooler.

worse case I could always get the Core 500 down the road but I dont see why I would have to if I choose the SG13 temp should be adequate for the components not to cook inside the case.

If you want a better cooler than the SilverStone NT06-Pro, the C1 is not it. It's actually far less capable, so it's not worth trying to find a way to fit it in.

Instead, just go for the Core 500 case and a huge tower cooler like the Cyrorig H7. That will get you better cooling, although it's really not necessary for this build.

cloudbuster

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Re: SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2017, 08:27:38 PM »
thanks, sorry for so many questions.

I was not really contemplating water cooling at this stage but I guess I give that a try now and not later.
Do you have a water cooler recommendation for the SG13.


Ari Altman

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Re: SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2017, 11:02:12 PM »
thanks, sorry for so many questions.

I was not really contemplating water cooling at this stage but I guess I give that a try now and not later.
Do you have a water cooler recommendation for the SG13.

Is there a reason you want to do water cooling? A 7700K and a GTX 1060 our even 1070 will not need water cooling and will be quieter with air cooling. The only reason you'd need liquid cooling is if you wanted to do extreme CPU overclocking, as in 4.9GHz or above.

A good liquid cooler for this case is the Corsair H55.

cloudbuster

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Re: SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2017, 08:38:25 PM »
no real reason, I just though it would be that much better for the CPU.

here is the latest part list.

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor  ($289.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350 Gaming-ITX/ac Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard  ($108.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($152.00 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($149.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: Zotac - GeForce GTX 1070 8GB Mini Video Card  ($412.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair - SF 450W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply  ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Other: SilverStone Technology Universal ATX to SFX Power Supply Bracket RL-PP08B  (Purchased For $0.00)
Total: $1203.95

question:
Do you think I should save some $$ and get the Ryzen 5 1600?
I saw your other post about using a Hybrid HDD fist time I see those, same thing should I save $$ and get one of those?
Also would the GPU be a good match for both the Core 500 and SG13?

To be honest I am going back and reviewing photos of the Core 500 and it seem that would be much better as far as heat dissipation. I dont know if I am overthinking all this thermal issues as it seem hundred of people enjoy stuffing high end GPU and CPU into the tiny SG13.
So right now I think the hardest choice would be on what case to get, I was all set on the SG13 but dont know.

This would be for 98% gaming 2% miscellaneous.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 08:13:25 AM by Ari Altman »

Ari Altman

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Re: SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2017, 08:11:32 AM »
Given that you're going to be running an eight-core CPU, I'd recommend that you use the Core 500 case. That way you can use a high-powered CPU cooler. My previous recommendation was based on Intel CPUs, as I forgot that you were using the Ryzen 7 1700. Remember, most coolers do not come with brackets for Ryzen's AM4 socket, so you'd need to source a bracket separately. For that processor and that case, you'll want to use the Noctua NH-U12S SE-AM4. Also note that with the Core 500 case you can use an ATX power supply, and I recommend the well-priced, ultra-compact Seasonic Focus 550FX. It costs $10 less and doesn't need an adapter bracket.

As for the drive, an SSD is better overall - the Hybrid drives were only recommended as a money-saving option. Speaking of saving money, RAM is going up in price every few days, so if you don't buy soon, you'll be spending a bit more on that than you planned!

By the way, it's better if you don't post PCPartPicker links in this forum, as that generates commissions for PCPP, rather than The Tech Buyer's Guru. If you'd like to use PCPP links, you can post on their site.

cloudbuster

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Re: SG13, Elite 110 or Core 500
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2017, 02:28:39 PM »
Thanks,
Question do you have link to follow before I order stuff?
Can you post link to the same items for amazon?

Since you don't mention anything regarding the GPU I assume to keep the same one.
Can you post some good fans to use on the top 140 or 120.

From now on I will edit the list to eliminate the links.

And sometimes I see CPU cooler with high TDP but it seem they perform bad, do you know why is that.

Thanks.