Author Topic: Upgrading CPU Questions  (Read 7077 times)

LongJon

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Upgrading CPU Questions
« on: June 24, 2017, 03:32:58 PM »
Don't talk me out of it Ari, just role with me because I value your opinion lol.  Live somewhat vicariously through me.

I have the i7-5820k on my Asus X99 motherboard.

I want to upgrade my CPU and I'm willing to spend around $400 which leads me to believe I should be eyeing the i7-7800x? 
If I go with that CPU what do you think?  I'll need a new Asus X299 motherboard correct?  That's fine and I can do that but would I need anything else?

I will be selling my 5820K so I should get back a ton of my money for what I spend on this next CPU. 
Tell me what I want to hear!  Haha kidding, I know the differences won't be that much I just want the newest CPU to match my new 1080Ti

Is there something else I should be looking at?  Would I have to change anything else?  What are the benefits if I go with a build similar to this?  I'm sure the differences are minuscule comparing the 7700k to the 7800k?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Current PC Specs are Below:

My current PC build: (Prices were when I bought each item)

1.) CPU = i7-5820k

2.) Motherboard =Asus X99-A/USB3.1

3.) Video Card = EVGA Geforce GTX 1080 Ti FTW3

4.) RAM = 32GB Corsair 4x4(2) Vengeance LPX DDR4-3000 Black

5.) Hard Drive - Samsung 850 Evo 1TB 2.5inch SATA III SSD
                        Toshiba P300 3TB Desktop 3.5 Inch SATA 6Gb/s 7200rpm Internal Hard Drive

6.) Power Supply - Corsair HXi Series HX1000i -

7.) Pioneer Blu Ray Disc Drive/Burner BDR-2209

8.) Operating System = Windows 10

9.) Case - Mastercase Maker 5

Ari Altman

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Re: Upgrading CPU Questions
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2017, 04:03:29 PM »
OK, OK, I'll let you have your brand-new CPU and motherboard! In fact, this time, I'm going to try to talk you into aiming higher, for two reasons. First, to get a motherboard that's the equivalent of your X99-A, you'll probably want the Asus X299-A. While you do have the option of the Asus X299 TUF Mark 2, which is closer to the original price of the X99-A, it doesn't have some of the features you might take for granted, like LED display codes, external BIOS flashback, and updated USB ports (in this case, USB 3.1 Type C). The price is a bit inflated right now, but I'd hate to see you get a downgrade in motherboard features just to get an upgrade in the CPU.

In terms of the CPU, sure, you can go with the Core i7-7800X, but I'd rather see you go with the Core i7-7820X. Yes, it's an extra $200, but it has two big advantages for you: (1) you get eight cores, a true upgrade from your six core processor, and (2) it has more advanced Turbo modes than the 7800X, so it can clock up to 4.5GHz on two cores under certain circumstances. The 7800X does not have the same "Turbo Boost Max" feature, and will only clock to 4GHz. You didn't list your cooler, but I think you have a Corsair liquid cooler, which should work well. And even at stock speeds, the 7820X will be substantially faster than your 5820K, on the order of 20% in single-threaded tasks and 60% in multi-threaded tasks, assuming a CPU limitation (i.e., not necessarily in games).

Again, this is specifically in your circumstance, as you already have a great six-core processor. For people building from scratch, the 7800X is a perfect choice, but I don't think it's worth the trouble in your situation.

So, to summarize, here's all you'll need:
(1) The Intel Core i7-7820X - $599
(2) The Asus X299-A - $310

These are currently available for pre-order, launching on Monday, and if you have Amazon Prime, you should have them by Wednesday.

One thing to note - you'll need your Windows 10 license key handy for the upgrade, as a new motherboard will trigger an activation warning, requiring you to input your key number.

LongJon

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Re: Upgrading CPU Questions
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2017, 09:59:20 PM »
Yes, I have a Corsair Hydro H105 Liquid CPU Cooler. 

I bought both the items you mentioned so I can't wait for them to get here.  I'll have to find that windows 10 key somewhere.

I feel like I can get about half my money back when I sell my 5820k and X99 Motherboard so that lessens the blow a little.

As a side note, is there a file cleanup program you recommend?  i'm playing a game called H Hour Worlds Elite which is a sort of remake from the early Socom 1 and Socom 2 games that ushered in online play on PS2.  This game is a "spiritual successor" and it was the main reason I built my PC.  It runs on Unreal Engine 4 like a lot of games nowadays and ever since their latest patch (almost a month ago) I'm getting fatal error after fatal error.  The same is an early access game meaning it's still in development and I used to never have a problem.  The studio has tried emailing me to help me figure out my issue but to no avail.  I've verified integrity of game files, i've completely uninstalled and reinstalled but when I join a game I get kicked out immediately.  They can't seem to figure it out.  A new patch for the game is incoming very soon (within a week or so) and I'm hoping that fixes the issue because it isn't really affecting anyone else nearly as bad as it is me (it's a small community being an early access game). 

Here is what happens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvSgWu82GuM

Anyway I know that's probably not your forte but i may just back everything up to my external hard drive and reinstall windows yet again if I can't figure anything else out.

Ari Altman

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Re: Upgrading CPU Questions
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2017, 10:30:37 PM »
Congrats on the new parts - you'll like this upgrade. ;)

I can see from your video that an error message was displayed - by watching it frame-by-frame I can see that the error said "The UE4-HHHour game engine has crashed and will.... Fatal error!"

This isn't a standard Windows error dialog box. It looks like a placeholder used by the developers, as the formatting is a bit off. It still provides a lot of information, however, in the sense that we know this isn't a video card driver crash, and it's not a Windows system crash. In other words, it's the game itself. Now, as far as getting it to run, I wouldn't recommend wiping Windows at this point, but when you get your new CPU and motherboard, that would be a very good time to reformat and reinstall. In the process, hopefully it will fix the game as well, but if it doesn't, this is just something that the game developers are going to have to fix. Could be an issue related to your high-end specs - most people aren't running this on a six (or eight) core system, so maybe the game engine is having trouble with it (although UE4 is new and should do multi-core well).

In short, I wouldn't blame your system for this, and I wouldn't reinstall Windows for it unless you have another reason to, which you will very soon!

Let me know when the gear arrives - I really hope Intel keeps its promise regarding pre-orders!

LongJon

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Re: Upgrading CPU Questions
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2017, 04:33:00 PM »
Congrats on the new parts - you'll like this upgrade. ;)

I can see from your video that an error message was displayed - by watching it frame-by-frame I can see that the error said "The UE4-HHHour game engine has crashed and will.... Fatal error!"

This isn't a standard Windows error dialog box. It looks like a placeholder used by the developers, as the formatting is a bit off. It still provides a lot of information, however, in the sense that we know this isn't a video card driver crash, and it's not a Windows system crash. In other words, it's the game itself. Now, as far as getting it to run, I wouldn't recommend wiping Windows at this point, but when you get your new CPU and motherboard, that would be a very good time to reformat and reinstall. In the process, hopefully it will fix the game as well, but if it doesn't, this is just something that the game developers are going to have to fix. Could be an issue related to your high-end specs - most people aren't running this on a six (or eight) core system, so maybe the game engine is having trouble with it (although UE4 is new and should do multi-core well).

In short, I wouldn't blame your system for this, and I wouldn't reinstall Windows for it unless you have another reason to, which you will very soon!

Let me know when the gear arrives - I really hope Intel keeps its promise regarding pre-orders!

Thanks I'm super pumped.  I can't wait to read some final reviews on what I purchased.  I sort of wish bluetooth and wifi were included with the motherboard but if not, oh well but I'm still really excited.

As far as wiping and re-installing windows, it might be a timing issue thing.  If the patch comes out before I get the new CPU and Motherboard and I'm not getting booted anymore, there won't be any reason to start fresh with the new components right?  I won't be wiping or re-installing before getting my new stuff either way, for the record.  Just figured I'd ask.

Also as yet another side question, I have audio engine A+ speakers for my desktop and I've had them since I built the PC and love them.  I also have an Audio Engine DAC.  My question is that I bought a new headset, the Sennheiser Game Zero Gaming Headset for right at $200.  A buddy of mine has this headset and said it's the perfect headset with the exception of not a ton of bass, but if you have a DAC that'll take care of it.  Seeing as how I've had a DAC it made me wonder.... I've been using a Hyper X Cloud 2 headset (I only use all these headsets for gaming, btw) since I built the PC and it connects via USB.  Well you connect the 3.5 audio cable to a sort of USB dongle that then connects via USB dongle which then connects to a USB port.  I've taken the 3.5 cord on my Hyper X headset and plugged it into my DAC before (which doesn't have a USB slot as I'm sure most DAC's don't) and the audio was fine but I couldn't chat or have the surround sound because those controls were on the dongle the headset cord plugs into.  I hope I'm making sense.  I'm wondering with this new headset how I'll be able to chat/while playing if I'm only plugged into this Audio Engine DAC?

I'll talk to my buddy about it tonight because I think I'm missing something.

Ari Altman

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Re: Upgrading CPU Questions
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2017, 05:20:21 PM »
Congrats on the new parts - you'll like this upgrade. ;)

I can see from your video that an error message was displayed - by watching it frame-by-frame I can see that the error said "The UE4-HHHour game engine has crashed and will.... Fatal error!"

This isn't a standard Windows error dialog box. It looks like a placeholder used by the developers, as the formatting is a bit off. It still provides a lot of information, however, in the sense that we know this isn't a video card driver crash, and it's not a Windows system crash. In other words, it's the game itself. Now, as far as getting it to run, I wouldn't recommend wiping Windows at this point, but when you get your new CPU and motherboard, that would be a very good time to reformat and reinstall. In the process, hopefully it will fix the game as well, but if it doesn't, this is just something that the game developers are going to have to fix. Could be an issue related to your high-end specs - most people aren't running this on a six (or eight) core system, so maybe the game engine is having trouble with it (although UE4 is new and should do multi-core well).

In short, I wouldn't blame your system for this, and I wouldn't reinstall Windows for it unless you have another reason to, which you will very soon!

Let me know when the gear arrives - I really hope Intel keeps its promise regarding pre-orders!

Thanks I'm super pumped.  I can't wait to read some final reviews on what I purchased.  I sort of wish bluetooth and wifi were included with the motherboard but if not, oh well but I'm still really excited.

As far as wiping and re-installing windows, it might be a timing issue thing.  If the patch comes out before I get the new CPU and Motherboard and I'm not getting booted anymore, there won't be any reason to start fresh with the new components right?  I won't be wiping or re-installing before getting my new stuff either way, for the record.  Just figured I'd ask.

Also as yet another side question, I have audio engine A+ speakers for my desktop and I've had them since I built the PC and love them.  I also have an Audio Engine DAC.  My question is that I bought a new headset, the Sennheiser Game Zero Gaming Headset for right at $200.  A buddy of mine has this headset and said it's the perfect headset with the exception of not a ton of bass, but if you have a DAC that'll take care of it.  Seeing as how I've had a DAC it made me wonder.... I've been using a Hyper X Cloud 2 headset (I only use all these headsets for gaming, btw) since I built the PC and it connects via USB.  Well you connect the 3.5 audio cable to a sort of USB dongle that then connects via USB dongle which then connects to a USB port.  I've taken the 3.5 cord on my Hyper X headset and plugged it into my DAC before (which doesn't have a USB slot as I'm sure most DAC's don't) and the audio was fine but I couldn't chat or have the surround sound because those controls were on the dongle the headset cord plugs into.  I hope I'm making sense.  I'm wondering with this new headset how I'll be able to chat/while playing if I'm only plugged into this Audio Engine DAC?

I'll talk to my buddy about it tonight because I think I'm missing something.

Oh, I didn't know you wanted WiFi and Bluetooth. If that's important to you, then it will be worth cancelling the X299-A and ordering the X299-E ROG Strix at $350. I didn't want to push you too far over budget, but $40 extra for Wifi and Bluetooth is a good deal if you'll use them.

As for your headset question, as it turns out, you got lucky going with an ultra-high-end Sennheiser Game Zero Headset. While I haven't used them myself, I took a close look at the specs, and it appears to separate audio in and audio out via dual 3.5mm jacks. That's extremely unusual, and not something you'd find in typical gaming gear. Thus, you'll plug the audio in (headphone) jack into the Audio Engine D1 DAC, then plug the audio out (microphone) into your PC. Note that to connect your DAC to your PC, you'll probably want to use optical digital, as your DAC has that input.

LongJon

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Re: Upgrading CPU Questions
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2017, 03:02:18 PM »
Congrats on the new parts - you'll like this upgrade. ;)

I can see from your video that an error message was displayed - by watching it frame-by-frame I can see that the error said "The UE4-HHHour game engine has crashed and will.... Fatal error!"

This isn't a standard Windows error dialog box. It looks like a placeholder used by the developers, as the formatting is a bit off. It still provides a lot of information, however, in the sense that we know this isn't a video card driver crash, and it's not a Windows system crash. In other words, it's the game itself. Now, as far as getting it to run, I wouldn't recommend wiping Windows at this point, but when you get your new CPU and motherboard, that would be a very good time to reformat and reinstall. In the process, hopefully it will fix the game as well, but if it doesn't, this is just something that the game developers are going to have to fix. Could be an issue related to your high-end specs - most people aren't running this on a six (or eight) core system, so maybe the game engine is having trouble with it (although UE4 is new and should do multi-core well).

In short, I wouldn't blame your system for this, and I wouldn't reinstall Windows for it unless you have another reason to, which you will very soon!

Let me know when the gear arrives - I really hope Intel keeps its promise regarding pre-orders!

Thanks I'm super pumped.  I can't wait to read some final reviews on what I purchased.  I sort of wish bluetooth and wifi were included with the motherboard but if not, oh well but I'm still really excited.

As far as wiping and re-installing windows, it might be a timing issue thing.  If the patch comes out before I get the new CPU and Motherboard and I'm not getting booted anymore, there won't be any reason to start fresh with the new components right?  I won't be wiping or re-installing before getting my new stuff either way, for the record.  Just figured I'd ask.

Also as yet another side question, I have audio engine A+ speakers for my desktop and I've had them since I built the PC and love them.  I also have an Audio Engine DAC.  My question is that I bought a new headset, the Sennheiser Game Zero Gaming Headset for right at $200.  A buddy of mine has this headset and said it's the perfect headset with the exception of not a ton of bass, but if you have a DAC that'll take care of it.  Seeing as how I've had a DAC it made me wonder.... I've been using a Hyper X Cloud 2 headset (I only use all these headsets for gaming, btw) since I built the PC and it connects via USB.  Well you connect the 3.5 audio cable to a sort of USB dongle that then connects via USB dongle which then connects to a USB port.  I've taken the 3.5 cord on my Hyper X headset and plugged it into my DAC before (which doesn't have a USB slot as I'm sure most DAC's don't) and the audio was fine but I couldn't chat or have the surround sound because those controls were on the dongle the headset cord plugs into.  I hope I'm making sense.  I'm wondering with this new headset how I'll be able to chat/while playing if I'm only plugged into this Audio Engine DAC?

I'll talk to my buddy about it tonight because I think I'm missing something.

Oh, I didn't know you wanted WiFi and Bluetooth. If that's important to you, then it will be worth cancelling the X299-A and ordering the X299-E ROG Strix at $350. I didn't want to push you too far over budget, but $40 extra for Wifi and Bluetooth is a good deal if you'll use them.

As for your headset question, as it turns out, you got lucky going with an ultra-high-end Sennheiser Game Zero Headset. While I haven't used them myself, I took a close look at the specs, and it appears to separate audio in and audio out via dual 3.5mm jacks. That's extremely unusual, and not something you'd find in typical gaming gear. Thus, you'll plug the audio in (headphone) jack into the Audio Engine D1 DAC, then plug the audio out (microphone) into your PC. Note that to connect your DAC to your PC, you'll probably want to use optical digital, as your DAC has that input.

Truth be told, I probably won't use them at the moment, but i'll be moving before too long and when I do, I may or may not be able to have my PC right next to the router.  I most likely will but you never know, and its good to have just in case.  Also, same for bluetooth built in.  It's almost like a piece of mind kind of thing.  I'm glad I asked, i cancelled my other motherboard and ordered the Strix before I went to bed last night.

Do you expect there to be a delay for the CPU and motherboard?  I believe when I bought them on the 24th it said shipping on the 26th or 27th?  I honestly can't remember but it was somewhere around this Monday-Wedensday, now it just says "delivery date pending".

How well does the WiFi and Bluetooth perform on motherboards for desktops?  I know it's pretty uncommon for those features to be on desktops.  I'm assuming it will have the latest WiFi and Bluetooth standards?

Thanks for clarifying the headset deal.  I knew it was pretty unique.  The headset should get here tomorrow.

Ari Altman

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Re: Upgrading CPU Questions
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2017, 05:13:51 PM »
I'll let you know if any other readers get their new Intel gear, but it's liking like this might be a paper launch. Availability was supposed to be today, but either there were more pre-orders than Intel could fulfill, or more likely the stuff isn't ready. That being said, since you have a working system that you're upgrading, there's no harm in waiting for the gear to ship.

By the way, Asus built-in Wifi is the best. I rely on it for several test systems. It's typically better than aftermarket adapters, not surprising given that Asus makes the fastest stand-alone adapters on the market.

LongJon

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Re: Upgrading CPU Questions
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2017, 08:18:08 PM »
I'll let you know if any other readers get their new Intel gear, but it's liking like this might be a paper launch. Availability was supposed to be today, but either there were more pre-orders than Intel could fulfill, or more likely the stuff isn't ready. That being said, since you have a working system that you're upgrading, there's no harm in waiting for the gear to ship.

By the way, Asus built-in Wifi is the best. I rely on it for several test systems. It's typically better than aftermarket adapters, not surprising given that Asus makes the fastest stand-alone adapters on the market.

Thanks.  I noticed you posted this on the current $3500 build:

"Note that this kit will default to DDR4-2133 until the XMP profile is selected in the UEFI. By the way, we strongly discourage you from using DDR4-2800 or DDR4-3000 with this system, as it requires an odd memory ratio that throws off CPU overclocking."

Would I have to worry about that since I have DDR4-3000?  Also, when they install the new parts, would they be aware to change the settings in the UEFI?  I mean they know what they are doing, clearly if they do these type of things for a living, but I'm just wondering if it's worth mentioning to them just in case.

Ari Altman

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Re: Upgrading CPU Questions
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2017, 08:30:44 PM »
I'll let you know if any other readers get their new Intel gear, but it's liking like this might be a paper launch. Availability was supposed to be today, but either there were more pre-orders than Intel could fulfill, or more likely the stuff isn't ready. That being said, since you have a working system that you're upgrading, there's no harm in waiting for the gear to ship.

By the way, Asus built-in Wifi is the best. I rely on it for several test systems. It's typically better than aftermarket adapters, not surprising given that Asus makes the fastest stand-alone adapters on the market.

Thanks.  I noticed you posted this on the current $3500 build:

"Note that this kit will default to DDR4-2133 until the XMP profile is selected in the UEFI. By the way, we strongly discourage you from using DDR4-2800 or DDR4-3000 with this system, as it requires an odd memory ratio that throws off CPU overclocking."

Would I have to worry about that since I have DDR4-3000?  Also, when they install the new parts, would they be aware to change the settings in the UEFI?  I mean they know what they are doing, clearly if they do these type of things for a living, but I'm just wondering if it's worth mentioning to them just in case.

The issue with DDR4-3000 RAM is that it requires an odd multiplier (or at least it did with Haswell and Broadwell). So you've already been living with it. Truth be told, I don't know if Skylake-X has the same issue, as I don't have this gear in hand, and none of the reviews I've read have touched on the issue (they are all running DDR4-3200, likely because that's what Intel told them to do). In the end, it's not a big deal, just messes with your overclocking ratios, but your builder will know what to do. And since the new motherboard has a new UEFI built in, he'll have to adjust the settings to your specifications. If you want your RAM overclocked to 3000MHz, you'll have to tell him. If you want the CPU overclocked, you'll have to tell him that as well.

LongJon

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Re: Upgrading CPU Questions
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2017, 03:17:06 PM »
Okay thanks, I'll make sure to tell him.  I currently (and recently) overclocked my current CPU and believe I did everything correctly.  I definitely want everything that can be overclocked to be overclocked.  Safely of course but nonetheless. 

Got my headset, will set it up later tonight. 

Ari Altman

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Re: Upgrading CPU Questions
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2017, 09:11:40 PM »
Just a quick FYI - I've seen no indication whatsoever that Intel has actually shipped its Skylake-X processors, despite the marketing hype surrounding the June 26th hard launch. I'm sorry about that, but at least you're in line for one. Five TBG readers pre-ordered these CPUs, and none shipped on launch day.

LongJon

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Re: Upgrading CPU Questions
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2017, 02:11:29 PM »
Just a quick FYI - I've seen no indication whatsoever that Intel has actually shipped its Skylake-X processors, despite the marketing hype surrounding the June 26th hard launch. I'm sorry about that, but at least you're in line for one. Five TBG readers pre-ordered these CPUs, and none shipped on launch day.

Interesting.  Thanks for the heads up.  Has this kind of thing happened in the past?  Any way to tell about how long it may be? 

Ari Altman

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Re: Upgrading CPU Questions
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2017, 03:09:10 PM »
Limited availability often happens with popular new components, although according to my tracking data, not a single Skylale-X cpu or Z299 motherboard has shipped, which suggests that Intel didn't actually deliver these to retailers. This is what's called a paper launch, but I can assure you that Amazon is probably not amused at being manipulated for marketing purposes. I noticed that European storefronts didn't list the Skylake-X gear for pre-order, and while this is just a guess, it's possible that they could get into regulatory trouble for promising to ship and then failing to follow through.

Alas, in the U.S., anything goes, so you'll just have to accept this small dose of snake oil courtesy of Intel!

LongJon

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Re: Upgrading CPU Questions
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2017, 10:04:40 AM »
Okay, just asking here... How big of step up (in performance, i know the $ figure lol) would it be for the i9 7900x?  I'm on the fence at the moment because mine still hasn't shipped... Of just switching my order.  Make a case for and against. 

Also, if I did go with the 7900x, I know the motherboard I purchased would be fine with it as it's an x299 board but would I need to get a better motherboard?  I'm assuming no? 

Hit me with some knowledge Ari.  I know I'd be getting 10 cores/20 threads vs 8 cores/16 threads.. Should I just stick with the 7820X?

Also what's the major differences in the new Kaby Lake-X chips vs the new Skylake-X chips?  Why am I going with Skylake-X over those?  What do they offer?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 10:07:47 AM by LongJon »