Author Topic: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)  (Read 19311 times)

Ari Altman

  • TBG Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3563
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #180 on: March 06, 2019, 01:06:54 PM »

Quote
I'm pretty sure that my current SG13 system using the NT06-Pro has some contact between the backplate and motherboard, but like I said, I'm awaiting SilverStone's thoughts on this. It's actually a concern I've raised before with them about that backplate design.


Clear. Letís hope they come back to us soon. Also the spacers included for the backside are not in the manual and only because I read in this forum that they were needed I didnít struggle with it. One did break so the quality of the spacers is not too great.

Btw does your motherboard touch the cooler backplate through the same solder points or pins ? Or just the plastic / print board motherboard (which I donít think will be an issue)




Is it touching the plastic part of your mono

Actually, I just realized that you have SilverStone's newer AM4-compatible backplate. The I used was an older version, and as you can see in this photo, it touched one of the pins (upper-right):



I'm fairly certain there's no risk involved here, but I'm hoping SilverStone can explain why! Might be a day or two before I hear back from them, and I realize you can't get to the next step of your build without installing the motherboard in the SG13 chassis. Perhaps you can busy yourself installing the front fan!

Ari Altman

  • TBG Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3563
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #181 on: March 07, 2019, 12:28:28 AM »
And here's the answer, direct from Silverstone!

Quote
a short circuit is "possible" if metal parts on back of motherboard touches and also scratches the NT06-PRO's metal backplate (so that the solder pin makes solid contact with bare metal underneath backplate's black paint). Thus far we have not received reports of such incidences with our NT06-PRO or other coolers using metal backplates so that means the layer of black paint we've applied onto the backplate are holding up so far.

In general however, we do not recommend the use of metal backplate if it does make solid contact with those solder pins, since the pins can eventually work through the paint after several install/uninstall or during shipping/transport. But if they are not touching, then everything should be fine.

Another option for customer who are not comfortable with using the backplate and/or have already scratched the paint, the four removable plastic stubs on the backplate can be used separately and applied as standoff for the mounting screws. Without backplate, the user should avoid overtightening the screws, which will result in bending the motherboard.

So it sounds like the plastic tabs are optional, but you are already using them. Your other option as they say is to skip the backplate, making sure not to overtighten the screws.

audiaddict

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #182 on: March 07, 2019, 03:36:11 AM »
Hi, thnx for your help! I donít understand the email though:

Do they mean leave out the backplate al together ? Wouldnít the screws then short circuit with the mobo? Some pictures would help if possible. Thanks!
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 04:46:29 AM by audiaddict »

Ari Altman

  • TBG Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3563
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #183 on: March 07, 2019, 07:46:42 AM »
Hi, thnx for your help! I donít understand the email though:

Do they mean leave out the backplate al together ? Wouldnít the screws then short circuit with the mobo? Some pictures would help if possible. Thanks!

SilverStone was kind enough to send some photos along:

(1) Standard installation:



(2) Installation without backplate:



As you can see, the plastic spacers can be used in both scenarios, and they are what protect the board from a short circuit.

audiaddict

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #184 on: March 07, 2019, 09:12:45 AM »
Thanks - I don't have those spacers in the kit. Only plastic "circles".
Seems there is a difference in the v1 and v2 packaging.

Anyways - I managed with my own spacers in this case (one of the 4 black circles provided was broken, so replaced all 4 for 2 EUR with new ones).
I will post some more photo's and step by step guide if I can find the time but a couple things that I ran into:

0 Even though you mention another guide for the cpu, memory etc instructions. It would be nice to mention it as a first step without further details. Motherboard install is not mentioned clearly after the CPU Cooler or PSU install (so I was unsure to install the PSU first and then the mobo etc).

1 The fan should be placed under the cooler and not on top (figured that out later by seeing it on the photo)

2 The rubber stickers should not be forgotten on the corner of the fan for extra noise damping

3 How to figure out the fan direction for both the CPU cooler (silverstone) and the case fan (noctua).
3a for the CPU cooler I have now the part where the wires are in the frame facing upwards to the fins
3b for the case cooler I am unsure because the guide uses a different brand and in the overview you advise noctua (which I purchased). The noctua has a logo on one side and the other doesn't. The wires in the frame are located on the logo side. Which direction should this be pointing to in the case?

4 important to install the RAM prior to install the CPU cooler (the guide doesn't mention this)

5 important to install the m2 ssd or you can't unscrew / access it once the CPU cooler is installed

6 the case has a small bracket near the PSU (looks like a drive bay) - if not taken out - the mobo / cpu cooler doesn't fit

7 dont forget the motherboard connection panel for the case (lol!)

Can't wait til I get this baby up and running. Again thanks for your help! Would be nice to know the case fan direction / orentiation. Should the case fan be sucking air out or blowing in?

« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 09:40:09 AM by audiaddict »

Ari Altman

  • TBG Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3563
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #185 on: March 07, 2019, 11:26:36 AM »
Thanks - I don't have those spacers in the kit. Only plastic "circles".
Seems there is a difference in the v1 and v2 packaging.

Anyways - I managed with my own spacers in this case (one of the 4 black circles provided was broken, so replaced all 4 for 2 EUR with new ones).
I will post some more photo's and step by step guide if I can find the time but a couple things that I ran into:

0 Even though you mention another guide for the cpu, memory etc instructions. It would be nice to mention it as a first step without further details. Motherboard install is not mentioned clearly after the CPU Cooler or PSU install (so I was unsure to install the PSU first and then the mobo etc).

1 The fan should be placed under the cooler and not on top (figured that out later by seeing it on the photo)

2 The rubber stickers should not be forgotten on the corner of the fan for extra noise damping

3 How to figure out the fan direction for both the CPU cooler (silverstone) and the case fan (noctua).
3a for the CPU cooler I have now the part where the wires are in the frame facing upwards to the fins
3b for the case cooler I am unsure because the guide uses a different brand and in the overview you advise noctua (which I purchased). The noctua has a logo on one side and the other doesn't. The wires in the frame are located on the logo side. Which direction should this be pointing to in the case?

4 important to install the RAM prior to install the CPU cooler (the guide doesn't mention this)

5 important to install the m2 ssd or you can't unscrew / access it once the CPU cooler is installed

6 the case has a small bracket near the PSU (looks like a drive bay) - if not taken out - the mobo / cpu cooler doesn't fit

7 dont forget the motherboard connection panel for the case (lol!)

Can't wait til I get this baby up and running. Again thanks for your help! Would be nice to know the case fan direction / orentiation. Should the case fan be sucking air out or blowing in?

Sorry about the confusion on the cooler - good to hear you found a solution.

Fans are all built the same way - the intake side is at the spinning hub, and the exhaust side is at the frame. So in this system, you want the cooler's fan blowing up, which means with the spinning hub facing down towards the motherboard. Additionally, you want the case fan blowing in, so you want the spinning hub facing the exterior of the case.

The case bracket that got in the way is actually for an ATX power supply, which is pretty silly in a case this small. I'm really hoping SilverStone will release a new version that's actually built for small power supplies!

audiaddict

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #186 on: March 07, 2019, 12:28:07 PM »
Hi! Thanks for your help again.

Can you help show in pictures what you are trying to explain?

Iím confused with your spinning hub (not sure what you mean), so let me try to ask differently:

Should the air be sucked in on the case fan (outside ó> in) when you look at the front of the case?
So actually take air from the outside and blow it to the back of the case? So NOT blow it outwards from the case to the outside of the front?

The cpu fan I have mounted on the bottom of the heat pipes and I have blowing the air to the top (through the cooling element towards the psu fan)



Ari Altman

  • TBG Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3563
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #187 on: March 07, 2019, 12:58:11 PM »
Hi! Thanks for your help again.

Can you help show in pictures what you are trying to explain?

Iím confused with your spinning hub (not sure what you mean), so let me try to ask differently:

Should the air be sucked in on the case fan (outside ó> in) when you look at the front of the case?
So actually take air from the outside and blow it to the back of the case? So NOT blow it outwards from the case to the outside of the front?

The cpu fan I have mounted on the bottom of the heat pipes and I have blowing the air to the top (through the cooling element towards the psu fan)

You're in luck, I've just published an extensive YouTube video on installing parts in a case, including the fan. You can see the discussion of fan airflow direction right here.

And yes, you need an intake in this case, otherwise the CPU cooler will get no air.

audiaddict

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #188 on: March 11, 2019, 07:37:18 AM »
Hi Ari and team, thanks again for the great guide!

I finally found the time to finish the build. It took me more time to build because of the limited to room in the case but in the end I'm really happy with this new build and it has found a nice spot on my desk instead of sitting on the ground (saves space!!).

Some important remarks for other people using this build:

- The CPU cooler really needs the corsair NA-SRC7 low noise adapters. Without these it's too loud and almost annoying
- Don't forget the m2 SSD, memory and CPU. Especially the SSD cannot be put in the heatsink later when the CPU cooler is mounted.
- I would leave out the backplate when using the gigabyte motherboard. Just use some plastic/nylon spacers. There is a risk of short circuit with the soldering pins when using the metal (see previous pictures in this thread)
- The cpu heatsink can be mounted in many directions as mentioned. Make sure to mount that it sticks out to the right (see photo)
- I would try to see if you can mount the heatsink of the CPU cooler after the motherboard is in the case and that all wires are connected. It took me massive effort and help of my girlfriend (tiny hands) to connect the power button, reset switch etc. It was very hard to reach
- Make sure the CPU and Case fan are in the right direction (@Ari can you check if the case fan direction is correct? see photo)
- The CPU fan should be mounted on the bottom of the heatsink and not the top. Notice the limited space between the memory and the fan. It's all very "tight" haha.
- There is a bracket near the PSU that you need to remove first (it looks like a 2.5" bay) before installing the SFX PSU
- It will require some time to carefully "organize" the cables. I was sure that nothing touched and I used tie-wraps to "clean up".



Oh.. last but not least: Be patient and take your time.. there is limited space in this case and it took me longer than expected :) But it was well worth the wait!!
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 07:44:08 AM by audiaddict »

Ari Altman

  • TBG Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3563
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #189 on: March 11, 2019, 08:38:40 AM »
This is an awesome build, audiaddict! Thanks so much for providing the detailed tips for other forum readers. I'm sure lots of people will use them!

You are right that attaching motherboard cables would be easier without the CPU cooler in place. That's a good suggestion - you just have to make sure you already have the cooler's retention brackets in place, as they must be attached through the back of the board, which is not possible once it's mounted in the case. You actually took a photo of them right here:



So at that point you could have installed the motherboard, and then mounted the heatsink afterwards. Also remember that when not using the backplate, you don't want to torque the bracket's mounting bolts too hard. The backplate prevents tension being applied to the motherboard, but without it, you could damage the motherboard if not paying attention. Your solution below, however, is ideal from the point of view of preventing short circuits:



I agree that the fan on the SilverStone NT06-Pro is pretty loud without the Noctua NA-SRC7 SRC7 low-noise adapter, but be mindful of CPU temperatures if you're overclocking.

And yes, this is exactly how the Noctua case fan should be mounted:



I'd like to profile your build and include some of your photos and tips in the TBG Gallery. Let me know if that would be OK with you!

audiaddict

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #190 on: March 11, 2019, 09:36:33 AM »
No worries! Glad I could do something in return.

Feel free to use my pictures/info. Sorry the quality isn't very good - not much sunlight in the evening :)


ecanem

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #191 on: March 12, 2019, 06:16:20 AM »
Thanks for the guide. 

I just got a new executive desk and needed a computer which could fit underneath the desk to replace my 9 year old Asus desktop which I  upgraded.

I followed the march guide almost to a T. 

I added: SAMSUNG 860 EVO Series 2.5" 1TB SATA III V-NAND 3-bit MLC Internal Solid State Drive
And Swapped out the M2:    Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 1TB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive  (This was on sale for $100 from newegg)

A few notes:

  • The bottom SSD slot in the case, it might have been my SSD but due to the orientation of the SSD and the SATA plug from the PS, it was absolutely impossible to use this.
  • DONT FORGET THE IO Plate... yeah, I did that and had to take the whole thing apart.
  • The USB 3 header cable rubs up against the heatsink of the CPU.  Actually, my front USB ports dont work at all right now, I don't know if the cable got knocked loose or what.  I am going to buy either a 90 degree adaptor or an extension cable which should solve this issue.

Otherwise, thanks for the build, it's amazing how small this PC is compared to my old one.  It's literally smaller than my subwoofer now. 

Ari Altman

  • TBG Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3563
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #192 on: March 12, 2019, 10:12:00 AM »
Thanks for the guide. 

I just got a new executive desk and needed a computer which could fit underneath the desk to replace my 9 year old Asus desktop which I  upgraded.

I followed the march guide almost to a T. 

I added: SAMSUNG 860 EVO Series 2.5" 1TB SATA III V-NAND 3-bit MLC Internal Solid State Drive
And Swapped out the M2:    Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 1TB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive  (This was on sale for $100 from newegg)

A few notes:

  • The bottom SSD slot in the case, it might have been my SSD but due to the orientation of the SSD and the SATA plug from the PS, it was absolutely impossible to use this.
  • DONT FORGET THE IO Plate... yeah, I did that and had to take the whole thing apart.
  • The USB 3 header cable rubs up against the heatsink of the CPU.  Actually, my front USB ports dont work at all right now, I don't know if the cable got knocked loose or what.  I am going to buy either a 90 degree adaptor or an extension cable which should solve this issue.

Otherwise, thanks for the build, it's amazing how small this PC is compared to my old one.  It's literally smaller than my subwoofer now.

Welcome to the Forum, ecanem, and thanks for the tips on this build!

The USB 3 cable placement is definitely an issue, but it's not unique to this build. It's a problem in almost any ITX system.

As for the 2.5" SSD, was there a reason you didn't want to use either of the 2 top mounts? That bottom mount really shouldn't be there - surface mounting an SSD seems like a good idea, but it almost never works, and I wish SilverStone would just drop that in the future.

Funny about the I/O plate - yup, I've done that before too!

ecanem

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #193 on: March 12, 2019, 09:03:44 PM »
Thanks for the guide. 

I just got a new executive desk and needed a computer which could fit underneath the desk to replace my 9 year old Asus desktop which I  upgraded.

I followed the march guide almost to a T. 

I added: SAMSUNG 860 EVO Series 2.5" 1TB SATA III V-NAND 3-bit MLC Internal Solid State Drive
And Swapped out the M2:    Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 1TB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive  (This was on sale for $100 from newegg)

A few notes:

  • The bottom SSD slot in the case, it might have been my SSD but due to the orientation of the SSD and the SATA plug from the PS, it was absolutely impossible to use this.
  • DONT FORGET THE IO Plate... yeah, I did that and had to take the whole thing apart.
  • The USB 3 header cable rubs up against the heatsink of the CPU.  Actually, my front USB ports dont work at all right now, I don't know if the cable got knocked loose or what.  I am going to buy either a 90 degree adaptor or an extension cable which should solve this issue.

Otherwise, thanks for the build, it's amazing how small this PC is compared to my old one.  It's literally smaller than my subwoofer now.

Welcome to the Forum, ecanem, and thanks for the tips on this build!

The USB 3 cable placement is definitely an issue, but it's not unique to this build. It's a problem in almost any ITX system.

As for the 2.5" SSD, was there a reason you didn't want to use either of the 2 top mounts? That bottom mount really shouldn't be there - surface mounting an SSD seems like a good idea, but it almost never works, and I wish SilverStone would just drop that in the future.

Funny about the I/O plate - yup, I've done that before too!

I am using the top two bays.  I had an idea of using three bays but really since I got the 1TB M2 and I have a 1 TB EVO 960 and a third 1TB slower SSD then I think I should be good on storage.

I didn't do any fancy benchmarking but I ran userbench which I used when speccing out the different HDD and... wow I am impressed for such a small PC.

https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/15430150

I am going to run the $$ for the exact cost of everything tomorrow.