Author Topic: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)  (Read 34367 times)

audiaddict

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #165 on: February 27, 2019, 10:59:45 PM »
Hi, first of all I very much appreciate this build and community! I can't wait to order and configure my hardware.

Some questions before doing so based on the march build (https://techbuyersguru.com/best-1500-ultra-compact-mini-itx-gaming-pc-build-march-2019)

- I am somewhat confused that in this thread a different CPU fan is being mentioned which is more quiet and has the same height. The Noctua NH-L12S. Why not use this over the Suggested Silverstone NT06-PRo-V2? I believe the Noctua is better?

- Are we not missing thermal paste? Even when ordering a boxed CPU -> you would need to replace the CPU fan right? Or is there already thermal paste on the CPU?

- I want to use this build for the next couple years and I'm worried about the PSU not being enough when upgrading the GPU in the near future. Wouldn't it be safer to go for a heavier PSU? If so which would you recommend? I read the corsair SF600 was mentioned elsewhere in this topic? Does it fit in the latest march build with the combination of the motherboard choice? Do I still need a bracket for the PSU? Should it be SFX instead of ATX?

- I find the GTX2070 rather expensive right now. Can you suggest any cheaper suggestions? GTX2060 or even the new GTX 1066 TI which should be really a good card for your money. I think the build guide can really benefit from some GPU options so people may choose the right model based on their budget and gaming need.

- Let's say I don't buy a GPU yet - can I use the onboard video until the prices drop?

- I'm currently using a core i7 3550k CPU and going back to a i5 feels like a downgrade instead of an upgrade. What do you think? Is it worth going for a i7 9700k? I know the new i5 is fater than my current CPU, but having more cores seems more futureproof. If going for the i7 -> would you say the cooling and PSU would be more of a problem?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 11:01:37 PM by audiaddict »

Ari Altman

  • TBG Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3924
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #166 on: February 28, 2019, 04:34:09 AM »
Hi, first of all I very much appreciate this build and community! I can't wait to order and configure my hardware.

Some questions before doing so based on the march build (https://techbuyersguru.com/best-1500-ultra-compact-mini-itx-gaming-pc-build-march-2019)

- I am somewhat confused that in this thread a different CPU fan is being mentioned which is more quiet and has the same height. The Noctua NH-L12S. Why not use this over the Suggested Silverstone NT06-PRo-V2? I believe the Noctua is better?

- Are we not missing thermal paste? Even when ordering a boxed CPU -> you would need to replace the CPU fan right? Or is there already thermal paste on the CPU?

- I want to use this build for the next couple years and I'm worried about the PSU not being enough when upgrading the GPU in the near future. Wouldn't it be safer to go for a heavier PSU? If so which would you recommend? I read the corsair SF600 was mentioned elsewhere in this topic? Does it fit in the latest march build with the combination of the motherboard choice? Do I still need a bracket for the PSU? Should it be SFX instead of ATX?

- I find the GTX2070 rather expensive right now. Can you suggest any cheaper suggestions? GTX2060 or even the new GTX 1066 TI which should be really a good card for your money. I think the build guide can really benefit from some GPU options so people may choose the right model based on their budget and gaming need.

- Let's say I don't buy a GPU yet - can I use the onboard video until the prices drop?

- I'm currently using a core i7 3550k CPU and going back to a i5 feels like a downgrade instead of an upgrade. What do you think? Is it worth going for a i7 9700k? I know the new i5 is fater than my current CPU, but having more cores seems more futureproof. If going for the i7 -> would you say the cooling and PSU would be more of a problem?

Thanks!

Welcome to the Forum, audiaddict! As you can see, many others have enjoyed this build, and I think you will too.

So, I'll just reply to your questions one by one:
(1) The Noctua NH-L12S is a quieter cooler that's easier to install. The SilverStone NT06-Pro V2 is the more powerful cooler that maxes out cooling capacity in this system. Due to the cramped quarters, the NT06 is recommended in this system.

(2) Thermal paste is included with the cooler.

(3) You can use the Corsair SF600 in this build, but you'll still need the PSU bracket.

(4) Thanks for your input on the GPU selections. The build guide is focused on balancing performance, power use, noise, heat, and other variables. Based on these factors, the RTX 2070 is the best GPU pick for the build. You can certainly use an RTX 2060 or GTX 1660 Ti, but the performance will obviously be lower. If you want to go with the RTX 2060, select the EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 XC Ultra Gaming (and specifically not any of EVGA's other cards). The problem with the 1660 Ti is that very few current models on the market will fit in this system. The only one that I know of is the Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1660 Ti Windforce. There may be others, but you'll need to check the dimensions. Most EVGA models will not fit due to being 3 slots wide.

(5) Don't focus on whether a CPU is an i5, i7, or i9. These are just arbitrary names at this point. What matters is performance, and a Core i5-9600K is much faster than your Core i7-3770K (there is no 3550K, by the way). Six cores versus four cores, much higher clockspeeds, better architecture. And I certainly wouldn't upgrade the CPU in this build and downgrade the GPU. That would actually be pretty silly, as you'd be trading away a huge amount of gaming performance for the same price. That ties back to what I said before - these builds are structured to give you the best combination of parts for the money. They aren't randomly selected. If you were going to stick with the RTX 2070 and wanted to upgrade the CPU, that would make more sense, but in my opinion, the Core i7-9700K runs too hot to use in this build without liquid cooling, which makes it an entirely different build. Again, the component selections are based on a lot of reviews and testing.

audiaddict

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #167 on: February 28, 2019, 05:27:43 AM »
Thanks for your feedback! Really appreciated.

Two last questions:

- The evga is very hard to find on Amazon in germany. Would this be an option?
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07JHXGJWZ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&psc=1

ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 2070 Mini Graphics Card NVIDIA RTX 2070  - seems like an option? Or is the height a problem?
It's anout 50 EUR less expensive too..

- Can I run the system on onboard VGA if the GPU takes too long to deliver?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 08:00:53 AM by Ari Altman »

Ari Altman

  • TBG Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3924
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #168 on: February 28, 2019, 08:09:21 AM »
Thanks for your feedback! Really appreciated.

Two last questions:

- The evga is very hard to find on Amazon in germany. Would this be an option?
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07JHXGJWZ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&psc=1

ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 2070 Mini Graphics Card NVIDIA RTX 2070  - seems like an option? Or is the height a problem?
It's anout 50 EUR less expensive too..

- Can I run the system on onboard VGA if the GPU takes too long to deliver?

Happy to help!

To understand why the GPU options for the SG13 are so limited, it's important to know that the GPU must be passed through the front of the case. It cannot be dropped in from above or through the side. Here is a photo I took for the SG13 assembly guide that shows how small that opening is:



I'm fairly confident that the Zotac model you found will not fit due to the height. Therefore, I don't recommend that you buy it.

One option that you can go with in Germany is Palit RTX 2070. This model is not sold in the US so it would not be listed in TBG's guides, but because of its reference-design height (112cm), it will fit. Length is also an issue, as it has to be under 27cm, but this model is 23.5cm, so it's no problem.

And yes, you can use onboard video until the GPU comes.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 08:10:55 AM by Ari Altman »

audiaddict

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #169 on: February 28, 2019, 11:53:36 AM »
Great. Thanks.

Can you double check my shopping list. Just want to make sure I have not made any mistakes :) :)

Memory in black was not available -> so had to go for white - should be the same.

« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 12:02:14 PM by audiaddict »

Ari Altman

  • TBG Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3924
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #170 on: February 28, 2019, 12:20:44 PM »
Great. Thanks.

Can you double check my shopping list. Just want to make sure I have not made any mistakes :) :)

Memory in black was not available -> so had to go for white - should be the same.



I have a  couple of changes to suggest, audiaddict.

(1) That white memory is not the same actually, it's the slower DDR4-3000 C16 that I believe is intended for AMD Ryzen systems. The memory you want is this DDR4-3000 White C15 kit. It appears there's a short wait for it to come back in stock.

(2) If you'd like to upgrade the SSD, don't go with the Samsung 970 Evo, which is discontinued. It has been replaced by the much faster 970 Evo Plus. Another good option is the SX8200 Pro 1TB. The original 970 Evo is now considered one of the slowest PCIe drives on the market.

Other than that, everything looks good. It seems you are also getting a great price on the Corsair SF600. The build guide was just updated today because of a sale price on it in the US.

audiaddict

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #171 on: March 01, 2019, 01:25:50 AM »
Everything is on it's way :) I will make some pictures once I get all the HW. Two more weeks of waiting unfortunately since most parts are not available :(.
Thanks again!

Ari Altman

  • TBG Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3924
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #172 on: March 01, 2019, 07:40:54 AM »
Everything is on it's way :) I will make some pictures once I get all the HW. Two more weeks of waiting unfortunately since most parts are not available :(.
Thanks again!

Good to hear. It will be worth the wait!

loteck

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #173 on: March 04, 2019, 05:38:56 PM »
Hello community, thanks for this resource. It looks great! While I certainly am looking forward to some occasional gaming with this rig, primarily I need it to be a workhorse capable of a solid video editing experience.

I'm hoping to get thoughts on the below questions:

1) I see in this thread that upgrading this build to i7 Coffee Lake is not recommended due to heat issues. However, the difference in video editing performance between i5 and i7 Coffee Lake is not small*, so I'd really like to avoid i5 if possible. I do realize that this form factor introduces practical limitations, though. Can you lend any thoughts about getting i7 performance into this compact build?

* https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommended/Recommended-Systems-for-Adobe-Premiere-Pro-CC-143/Hardware-Recommendations

2) Up the same alley as question 1, can I ask if potentially converting this build to a Ryzen architecture would potentially be a feasible way to get performance out of it at the top end? I know components were chosen very carefully, not sure if Ryzens run too hot.

3) Last question, and this may seem antithetical to my previous two questions, but I am planning on following Ari's advice on the previous page for making this build as quiet as can possibly be, especially at rest. If there are any additional suggestions or changes you would recommend since that last post, I'd like to hear them very much.

Thank you again for everyone's valuable information they dispense here!


Ari Altman

  • TBG Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3924
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #174 on: March 04, 2019, 10:02:37 PM »
Hello community, thanks for this resource. It looks great! While I certainly am looking forward to some occasional gaming with this rig, primarily I need it to be a workhorse capable of a solid video editing experience.

I'm hoping to get thoughts on the below questions:

1) I see in this thread that upgrading this build to i7 Coffee Lake is not recommended due to heat issues. However, the difference in video editing performance between i5 and i7 Coffee Lake is not small*, so I'd really like to avoid i5 if possible. I do realize that this form factor introduces practical limitations, though. Can you lend any thoughts about getting i7 performance into this compact build?

* https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommended/Recommended-Systems-for-Adobe-Premiere-Pro-CC-143/Hardware-Recommendations

2) Up the same alley as question 1, can I ask if potentially converting this build to a Ryzen architecture would potentially be a feasible way to get performance out of it at the top end? I know components were chosen very carefully, not sure if Ryzens run too hot.

3) Last question, and this may seem antithetical to my previous two questions, but I am planning on following Ari's advice on the previous page for making this build as quiet as can possibly be, especially at rest. If there are any additional suggestions or changes you would recommend since that last post, I'd like to hear them very much.

Thank you again for everyone's valuable information they dispense here!

Welcome to the TBG community, loteck!

Lots of important questions there, and the good news is that building your own ITX PC means you can have just about anything you want, as long as you don't expect everything you want. So, from this list, you can usually pick two:

(1) extreme performance
(2) ultra-quiet operation
(3) low cost

If your main goal is to have an Adobe Premiere workstation, I definitely think you should do the following:
(1) upgrade the CPU to the Core i9-9900K (a $250 add-on)
(2) downgrade the GPU to the Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1660 Ti (a $220 savings)
(3) switch over to the Noctua NH-L12S cooler, which is essentially inaudible (and a $10 savings from the stock build).

Now, it's important to point out that given your interest in a professional content creation app, I'm assuming you don't have a strong desire for overclocking. And that's a good thing, because overclocking a 9900K with a slimline cooler is just not going to end well. A liquid cooler could be used in this build to allow maximum boost from the 9900K at all times (it will likely throttle at times with a slimline cooler), but that sacrifices your silent idle experience, so I don't like that solution for your needs. In the end, you're going to have pretty much everything you want, while perhaps leaving out the things you don't really need.

Just one note: Amazon has zero stock of the 9700K for three weeks and the 9900K for one week, so at this point, you really should order the 9900K from B&H Photo Video if you want it anytime soon.

Everything else can stay the same in this build - you're just upgrading the CPU, sidegrading the cooler for quiet over extreme performance, and downgrading the GPU (be careful to use the one I linked to above, as most others won't fit). An optional upgrade for you would be to the solid-state drive. You could look at something like the XPG SX8200 512GB, or perhaps the 1TB version depending on how much storage you need for your workflow. Both are significantly faster in application performance than the Crucial P1 listed in the guide and more aimed at a gamer audience.

audiaddict

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #175 on: March 06, 2019, 09:44:57 AM »
The hardware has arrived!


Unforuntately I am running into an issue. See pin in red circle - this is very close to the cooler mount on the back and I'm afraid that it the metal will touch the pin.
What do you guys think? Will it cause a short circuit or any damage when the highlited pin will touch the back of the cooler? They are very close now (hard to see on the photo and there is a high chance that they will "touch" when applying pressure on the screws etc.





I do have the plastic spacers in between the back of the mobo. One did break in half - so I will need to buy a replacement for that.
This won't help with the height though - because all three in use now - have the same height.

I'm going to wait with the build.

PS: Cooling paste is included - If I remember from the good old days - the amount should be spread out on the CPU evenly but very thin - right?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 09:47:22 AM by audiaddict »

Ari Altman

  • TBG Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3924
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #176 on: March 06, 2019, 10:40:10 AM »
Audiaddict - I don't believe there is a serious risk here, but I've sent your photos to SilverStone to get their insights on whether contact between the cooler backplate and the motherboard's solder pins could cause a problem.

As for the thermal paste, the best method is to put a pea-sized amount in the center of the CPU's heatspreader, and then allow the cooler to press the paste out evenly. The potential problem with spreading it out yourself is that it could end up being uneven. When the cooler pressed it down, the paste spreads out evenly from the center, where most of the heat emanates from.

audiaddict

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #177 on: March 06, 2019, 12:38:41 PM »
Audiaddict - I don't believe there is a serious risk here, but I've sent your photos to SilverStone to get their insights on whether contact between the cooler backplate and the motherboard's solder pins could cause a problem.

As for the thermal paste, the best method is to put a pea-sized amount in the center of the CPU's heatspreader, and then allow the cooler to press the paste out evenly. The potential problem with spreading it out yourself is that it could end up being uneven. When the cooler pressed it down, the paste spreads out evenly from the center, where most of the heat emanates from.

Ok thanks. Its hard to wait and be patient with this new hardware haha, but I rather not
Break anything. Would it not Cause a short circuit by conducting metal to metal ? Also these “pins” are solder points I think and they obviously conduct/connect to something on the other side of the motherboard : cpu or memory  ?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 12:41:34 PM by audiaddict »

Ari Altman

  • TBG Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3924
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #178 on: March 06, 2019, 12:44:44 PM »
Audiaddict - I don't believe there is a serious risk here, but I've sent your photos to SilverStone to get their insights on whether contact between the cooler backplate and the motherboard's solder pins could cause a problem.

As for the thermal paste, the best method is to put a pea-sized amount in the center of the CPU's heatspreader, and then allow the cooler to press the paste out evenly. The potential problem with spreading it out yourself is that it could end up being uneven. When the cooler pressed it down, the paste spreads out evenly from the center, where most of the heat emanates from.

Ok thanks. Its hard to wait and be patient with this new hardware haha, but I rather not
Break anything. Would it not Cause a short circuit by conducting metal to metal ? Also these “pins” are solder points I think and they obviously conduct/connect to something on the other side of the motherboard : cpu or memory  ?

I'm pretty sure that my current SG13 system using the NT06-Pro has some contact between the backplate and motherboard, but like I said, I'm awaiting SilverStone's thoughts on this. It's actually a concern I've raised before with them about that backplate design.

audiaddict

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #179 on: March 06, 2019, 12:57:25 PM »

Quote
I'm pretty sure that my current SG13 system using the NT06-Pro has some contact between the backplate and motherboard, but like I said, I'm awaiting SilverStone's thoughts on this. It's actually a concern I've raised before with them about that backplate design.


Clear. Let’s hope they come back to us soon. Also the spacers included for the backside are not in the manual and only because I read in this forum that they were needed I didn’t struggle with it. One did break so the quality of the spacers is not too great.

Btw does your motherboard touch the cooler backplate through the same solder points or pins ? Or just the plastic / print board motherboard (which I don’t think will be an issue)




Is it touching the plastic part of your mono