Author Topic: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)  (Read 22637 times)

sng

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #135 on: January 07, 2019, 06:35:15 AM »
Hi.
First of all thanx for the guide to this build. Just what I am looking for. Perfect for the kids with a small portable and powerfull system they can bring along to their friends.

Now for the question. I have a bit of a hard time finding the EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 XC here in Denmark. Especially at a reasonable price. I have been looking for other alternatives ( also 2070 ), but I a bit worried about sizing. I understand that it must be 2-slot max and maximum length of 10.6 in (269mm). But what about the height? There are some MINI 2070 that are shorter that 10.6 but they are a bit higher, around 120-125 mm. Will that be a problem? Is there other concerns I should have when trying to find an altenative to the EVGA?

/Sng


Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #136 on: January 07, 2019, 04:22:49 PM »
Hi.
First of all thanx for the guide to this build. Just what I am looking for. Perfect for the kids with a small portable and powerfull system they can bring along to their friends.

Now for the question. I have a bit of a hard time finding the EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 XC here in Denmark. Especially at a reasonable price. I have been looking for other alternatives ( also 2070 ), but I a bit worried about sizing. I understand that it must be 2-slot max and maximum length of 10.6 in (269mm). But what about the height? There are some MINI 2070 that are shorter that 10.6 but they are a bit higher, around 120-125 mm. Will that be a problem? Is there other concerns I should have when trying to find an altenative to the EVGA?

/Sng

I'm at CES in Las Vegas Vegas now, and brought this issue up with Zotac, the leading vendor of mini Geforce cards. Unfortunately, their brand new RTX mini cards will all be above reference height, meaning EVGA will remain your only choice. I can almost guarantee any card more than about 10mm rather than reference won't fit in the SG13 because they can not be inserted, even if it looks there's space for them. Just wait for the EVGA or get an Nvidia Founders Edition.

Arild Jacobsen

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #137 on: January 10, 2019, 12:46:12 PM »
(1) CPU Cooler: switch from the high-powered SilverStone NT06-Pro to the slightly small and much, much quieter Noctua NH-L12S.

(2) Front fan: switch from the Arctic F12 to the absolutely silent Scythe Kaze Flex PWM Fan. It's what I personally use in my SG13 build.

(3) PSU: switch from the SilverStone SX500-G to the Corsair SF600, which is a bit more power than you need for the build, but has a zero-fan mode that makes it silent at idle.

With those three changes, and sticking with the EVGA RTX 2070 already in the guide, your build will be absolutely inaudible under low loads.

Are these still the best recommendations if I want to opt for a quieter build?

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #138 on: January 10, 2019, 01:06:58 PM »
(1) CPU Cooler: switch from the high-powered SilverStone NT06-Pro to the slightly small and much, much quieter Noctua NH-L12S.

(2) Front fan: switch from the Arctic F12 to the absolutely silent Scythe Kaze Flex PWM Fan. It's what I personally use in my SG13 build.

(3) PSU: switch from the SilverStone SX500-G to the Corsair SF600, which is a bit more power than you need for the build, but has a zero-fan mode that makes it silent at idle.

With those three changes, and sticking with the EVGA RTX 2070 already in the guide, your build will be absolutely inaudible under low loads.

Are these still the best recommendations if I want to opt for a quieter build?

Yes, definitely. All those recommendations are still current, and the EVGA RTX 2070 is now in better supply than a month ago.

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #139 on: January 13, 2019, 07:43:33 PM »
We had the following question come in by forum message, and wanted to answer it publicly so others could learn from the experience:

"Thanks for putting together this guide on the best $1500 mini-ITX gaming computer! I just finished my build this afternoon, following the December 2018 parts list, and it booted on the first try! However, I'm having some issues now that I have started getting settled. I have installed all of the motherboard and graphics card drivers already, and they are up to date.

First, the mouse cursor seems to be laggy when moving quickly. I think this may be a symptom of the larger problem with the graphics card.

Secondly, when I went to benchmark the graphics card performance with GFXBench, the computer would begin the tests, but after a few seconds (~30), the screen would go black (cut out entirely) and the fans on the RTX 2070 (which had not previously been running) would shoot to 100% power. I am not able to recover the computer from this crash except by doing a hard shut down with the case power button. The computer reboots correctly.

Do you have any ideas about what may be causing this and how to fix it?"

---------------------------

The slow mouse issue is an unusual one, and it points to the possibility of a setup problem, rather than a faulty GPU. The first thing I'd do is pull the card from the system (which is admittedly hard in this build) so you can use the onboard video from the motherboard to see if the system is otherwise functioning properly. I'd even run the same bench you used on the 2070, because even if the onboard graphics isn't what you'd typically benchmark, we want to make sure the system doesn't crash under load.

If everything checks out, the next thing I'd do is reinstall the video card, making sure that both the card and the power connectors are properly seated and locked in. Give the card another try, remember to switch the cable back over to it. If you still have a slow mouse issue, check the settings of the card in the Nvidia control panel (accessed from the taskbar in the lower-right corner of the screen). Specifically, I'm curious what the resolution and refresh rates are set at. In fact, I'd like to know what it is right now, before you even pull the card to begin troubleshooting.

By the way, it's also important to know what monitor you're using and what type of cable you're connecting with, so you might want to reply back with that info before you get to far into the testing.

mwschier

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #140 on: January 13, 2019, 08:43:19 PM »
Thanks for the assist, Ari.

The display is an ASUS VE228 (1920x1080) connected through HDMI. The current display properties are linked here. https://ibb.co/ww8Pk4v

If the linked screenshot doesn't come through for anyone, the resolution is 1080p, 1920x1080 (native) with a refresh rate of 60 Hz.

I'll try removing the card and running the benchmark again to see what's up, and will update the thread with results.

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #141 on: January 13, 2019, 08:57:25 PM »
Thanks for the assist, Ari.

The display is an ASUS VE228 (1920x1080) connected through HDMI. The current display properties are linked here. https://ibb.co/ww8Pk4v

If the linked screenshot doesn't come through for anyone, the resolution is 1080p, 1920x1080 (native) with a refresh rate of 60 Hz.

I'll try removing the card and running the benchmark again to see what's up, and will update the thread with results.

Looks like your monitor is hooked up properly and is being identified correctly.

Definitely try the troubleshooting tips I described and report back. There was a batch of RTX cards shipped out initially with some defects, but at this point, they've been cleared out of the retail channel. If you picked up the RTX 2070, it's unlikely to from that batch.

mwschier

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #142 on: January 15, 2019, 10:35:49 PM »
First thing, the slow mouse issue seems to have solved itself from when I inspected the resolution and refresh rate to get the screenshot for the previous post. Not sure why that fixed it, but the slow mouse has not reappeared through many reboot cycles. Win, I guess!

Got a reply from EVGA customer support as well, and I'll copy what they suggested here:

Quote
Thank you for contacting EVGA, I read through the black screen issue you had and we'll see if we can remedy the problem with some troubleshooting to start with.  To begin if there was a problem with the driver download I would recommend that we do a clean installation using a program called DDU, that way it will clean your computer of any trace of it including the registry.  Down below I will leave a guide for their program and how to run it.

https://www.wagnardsoft.com/content/ddu-guide-tutorial

Once that is done I'd also recommend that you update the firmware for that card through our software Precision X1, after you have done that please try running a benchmark once more and see if it completes.

https://www.evga.com/precisionx1/

Let us know how your testing goes and we will proceed from there.

My troubleshooting began with your suggestion of removing the graphics card and making sure the system performed nominally. There was no issues booting or browsing the internet/youtube/netflix/etc. Unfortunately, the benchmark would not run without a graphics card to test, so I wasn't able to specifically test that.

Following that, I carefully reinstalled the card, plugged in the power, and followed EVGA's steps from the email above to clean the old drivers fully and reinstall fresh.

The card behaved in the same manner once I had all that finished. Black screen and screaming fans after about a minute of the benchmark test.

Excited to figure out what's wrong with this!

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #143 on: January 15, 2019, 10:42:07 PM »
First thing, the slow mouse issue seems to have solved itself from when I inspected the resolution and refresh rate to get the screenshot for the previous post. Not sure why that fixed it, but the slow mouse has not reappeared through many reboot cycles. Win, I guess!

Got a reply from EVGA customer support as well, and I'll copy what they suggested here:

Quote
Thank you for contacting EVGA, I read through the black screen issue you had and we'll see if we can remedy the problem with some troubleshooting to start with.  To begin if there was a problem with the driver download I would recommend that we do a clean installation using a program called DDU, that way it will clean your computer of any trace of it including the registry.  Down below I will leave a guide for their program and how to run it.

https://www.wagnardsoft.com/content/ddu-guide-tutorial

Once that is done I'd also recommend that you update the firmware for that card through our software Precision X1, after you have done that please try running a benchmark once more and see if it completes.

https://www.evga.com/precisionx1/

Let us know how your testing goes and we will proceed from there.

My troubleshooting began with your suggestion of removing the graphics card and making sure the system performed nominally. There was no issues booting or browsing the internet/youtube/netflix/etc. Unfortunately, the benchmark would not run without a graphics card to test, so I wasn't able to specifically test that.

Following that, I carefully reinstalled the card, plugged in the power, and followed EVGA's steps from the email above to clean the old drivers fully and reinstall fresh.

The card behaved in the same manner once I had all that finished. Black screen and screaming fans after about a minute of the benchmark test.

Excited to figure out what's wrong with this!

I'm glad to hear the system at least works better for standards tasks at this point. I wonder if the Nvidia control panel did in fact change the refresh rate when you loaded it up.

Did you update the firmware using PrecisionX? I'm wondering if EVGA knows about an issue with the original firmware. Updating firmware on a GPU is very unusual.

If you did and you still get crashes, try another benchmarking program. I'd suggest 3DMark, which you can download for free from Steam. If the card can't get through this without crashing, I'd say it requires an RMA to EVGA (or return to where you bought it if that's still possible).

mwschier

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #144 on: January 15, 2019, 10:48:09 PM »
I did install Precision X1 and checked for updates, but nothing seemed to happen.

I will give 3DMark a shot. I also downloaded Heaven, which I'll try as well. Will update with results!

Edit: ran Heaven, same results as before. 3DMark demo is downloading, but I don't expect a different result.

2nd edit: 3DMark (demo) caused the same problem.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 11:04:16 PM by mwschier »

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #145 on: January 16, 2019, 07:36:15 AM »
I did install Precision X1 and checked for updates, but nothing seemed to happen.

I will give 3DMark a shot. I also downloaded Heaven, which I'll try as well. Will update with results!

Edit: ran Heaven, same results as before. 3DMark demo is downloading, but I don't expect a different result.

2nd edit: 3DMark (demo) caused the same problem.

Return it.

Okatiu

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #146 on: January 19, 2019, 01:31:03 AM »
Hi all,
I currently have a big gaming pc, the case is the Fractal Define S, and I was thinking about making it smaller because I'll need to move a lot in the next few years.

My current part list it: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/M8fmhy

Case: Fractal Define S
CPU: Intel i7 - 6700K
Cooler: Kraken X61
MoBo: MSI Z170A Krait Gaming 3X
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x8 GB
GPU: MSI 1070 Armor 8 GB
PSI: Corsair RM850i
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB

I'd like to make everything fit in the SG13, replacing the least amount of parts. Do you think it's possibile? Of course I'd need a new mobo and CPU cooler, but I was wondering if I could keep the CPU, the GPU, the RAM and maybe the PSU.


Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #147 on: January 19, 2019, 07:07:54 AM »
Hi all,
I currently have a big gaming pc, the case is the Fractal Define S, and I was thinking about making it smaller because I'll need to move a lot in the next few years.

My current part list it: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/M8fmhy

Case: Fractal Define S
CPU: Intel i7 - 6700K
Cooler: Kraken X61
MoBo: MSI Z170A Krait Gaming 3X
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x8 GB
GPU: MSI 1070 Armor 8 GB
PSI: Corsair RM850i
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB

I'd like to make everything fit in the SG13, replacing the least amount of parts. Do you think it's possibile? Of course I'd need a new mobo and CPU cooler, but I was wondering if I could keep the CPU, the GPU, the RAM and maybe the PSU.

Welcome to the Forum, Okatiu. That's a great system you have!

The bad news is that you basically can't use any of that in an SG13 other than the memory and SSD. The CPU could potentially be used, but buying a Z270 ITX motherboard that it requires is not cost effective at this point because they are no longer being made. There's just one available on Newegg - the Gigabyte Z270N. There's no telling how long it will be available.

But the bigger problem is that PSU is too long, the cooler is a bad fit, and the video card is too tall to fit in the case.

If you're willing to go with a slightly bigger case, we might be able to come up with something that works!

Okatiu

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #148 on: January 19, 2019, 07:30:50 AM »
Sure, my dream was to make it as small as possible without having to buy all the components again.. What case you think would be the smallest to most of the pieces I already have? I has thought about the slim ATX Thermaltake G3, but it is not much smaller than my current one and I would have to replace the cooler and the psu anyway.

timcook

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #149 on: January 19, 2019, 07:36:42 AM »
I recently followed this build with the only change being a 1 TB MX500 rather than 500 GB (a trivial change). I very much appreciate the guide and the work you do updating and maintaining the info.

A few things I noted in case anyone else is using the ~Jan 2019 part list. Some of these are in the step-by-step guide, but basically I thought it may be helpful to see where I had cause to pause, so that you don't run into the same mistakes:

1. The case has an existing bracket for the power supply that must be removed or else the CPU cooler and new power supply can't fit. It's very simple to remove (just two screws) and the bracket for the new power supply supports it just fine.

2. Make sure to plug in the HD Audio prior to mounting the CPU cooler. The rest of the cables for the front of the case (USB, power button, etc) can be plugged in afterwards (though it is harder) but the HD Audio gets totally covered and there is no way to plug it in after the fact.

3. The 2019 part list uses the ASRock Z390m ITX mobo and the SilverStone NT06-Pro-V2 CPU cooler. In my hands, this required the pipes of the CPU cooler to point parallel to the RAM, i.e. towards the right side of the case as you look at it from the front. Otherwise, the fins will prevent putting the case back together because the fins extend out the right side a little bit. In the step-by-step guide (which is extremely helpful, don't get me wrong), the parts are different enough that the cooler is oriented with the pipes going back. This won't work with the 2019 parts.

4. My CPU cooler came bent such that the top fins of the heat sink were angled sharply down and hit the RAM. It is quite easy to gently bend the pipes such that the base of the cooler and the heat fins are parallel again. Just go very slowly and spread out the force. The fins can be pretty sharp, so be mindful of that! Once I did this, everything fit just fine, no need to send back the CPU cooler, it will work just fine once bent back.

5. It's really important to mount the fans to blow in the correct direction. I had trouble knowing which way the CPU cooler fan would blow, so I plugged it in to a different computer to see. In short, the fan has one side where you can see the wires running along the frame, and another side where you just see the plastic bracket. The side with the visible wires should sit flush against the fins.

6. It's possible to mount the PSU either fan up for fan down. The guide very clearly says to mount it so that the fan is down. That way the CPU Cooler blows into the PSU, which can then blow out (and air can vent through the holes right below the PSU). I didn't realize the PSU could fit the mount in either direction and accidentally mounted it fan up at first.

7. The manual for the CPU Cooler doesn't totally match what you get (I think it's a v2 versus original model problem). The plastic washer discs aren't shown anywhere, but these are used to add some friction to the bolts so that they don't just fall out of the back mounting plate. If you watch the only existing youtube video on this cooler, the back mounting plate has a plastic bit permanently attached, but this isn't there anymore. Basically the black plastic washer discs go between the mobo and the mounting plate, acting as spacers. Without them, the bolts will just wobble and fall out, making it extremely difficult to thread the mounting plate and bolts through the mobo. It seems super obvious, but I left them out the first time because they didn't seem to fit over the bolts. Just give a bit more force and they'll slide on. Also, I forgot to add the rubber noise dampers between the fans and the fins at first. It's easy to get caught up mounting the fan and forget this part.

Note: There are gaps between fins such that you can tighten down the CPU cooler even with the fan mounted. You can just spin the fan blades a bit out the way if needed. I didn't realize this and mounted the fan once everything else was in place, and it was a total pain (then I had to do it again because I mounted the fan backwards, oops!)

Overall, the part list is perfect, everything fits and works super well. The guide is quite useful and honestly if you do this more than me or just are better at it, the things I listed above may be totally obvious anyway and not a problem at all. Just wanted to write this partially to say thanks for the great build and to help anyone a bit more if they happen to get stuck on the same things.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 07:41:54 AM by timcook »