Author Topic: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)  (Read 34722 times)

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2017, 01:53:09 PM »
Good feedback.

By not powered up, I mean nothing, nada, utterly dark as if not plugged in. No light, no fans, nothing.

I've removed and replaced (took off and put back on) all cables, ram, etc.  No change.

I vaguely recall that power supplies are somehow interlocked to the motherboard - meaning unless they sense they're connected the PS won't supply any power?  Not sure about this.

Will a power supply power up outside the chassis and disconnected from everything except the wall plug?

If so, can it's outputs be measured with a multi-meter or scope - I have both.

Thanks, Brad...

You can test a power supply outside of a case, but you need a self-power on tester, which the SilverStone unit doesn't come with. Basically, it needs a signal from the motherboard to power on. You could certainly test its outputs while in the case by pressing the power button, but you'll need the 24-pin motherboard cable attached to the motherboard to do so. If that cable isn't passing a signal, you won't get power on to other cables either.

But another idea here: if you're going to start disassembling it anyway (which is a pain with this build, I realize!), you might test to see if pulling everything out of the case and setting it up outside on a non-conductive surface allows it to power up. You'll still need the case's power button leads connected, however, to power on the system. Just to prove to yourself that nothing else is the issue, you can strip the board of the memory, video card, and SSDs. That way you won't damage them during testing, and given that they don't have anything to do with the issue, they'll just get in the way of testing.

smithrb

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2017, 04:20:25 PM »
New power supply and cables had no effect.  Found the pins (green and adjacent black) that could be shorted to bench test, but not likely both supplies are bad.  Gonna go with the disassembly advice you provided at this point.  Will reply back later...

smithrb

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2017, 04:48:42 PM »
Ok, MB out and stripped of RAM and SSDs.  Nothing but power supply connections to MB and front panel reset switch.

No joy - no hints of life - dead...


Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2017, 06:16:17 PM »
Ok, MB out and stripped of RAM and SSDs.  Nothing but power supply connections to MB and front panel reset switch.

No joy - no hints of life - dead...

Just too confirm, did you have the power switch lead attached? Reset wouldn't be enough.

And you have a second power supply to test with? That should be sufficient to determine if it's a power supply issue.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 10:36:59 PM by Ari Altman »

smithrb

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2017, 06:47:30 PM »
I mistakenly said reset switch but meant pwr switch.

Yes, I have second power supply,  same results.

"Riday?"

Also, would you place any kind of insulator between the bottom of the MB and screw posts of the chassis, or is the bare contact what is needed?

At this point it seems swapping the MB out is all thats left.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 07:17:44 PM by smithrb »

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2017, 10:40:07 PM »
I mistakenly said reset switch but meant pwr switch.

Yes, I have second power supply,  same results.

"Riday?"

Also, would you place any kind of insulator between the bottom of the MB and screw posts of the chassis, or is the bare contact what is needed?

At this point it seems swapping the MB out is all thats left.

Well, my phone mistakenly typed a non-word in place of "that"!

You must use the black-painted posts that come with the chassis, but as long as they are installed, you don't need any other insulator. The photo below highlights some other elements of the SG13-based build, but you can see the black post in the foreground:



This is of course taken from the TBG assembly guide for the SG13.

smithrb

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2017, 05:19:22 AM »
Thanks for that - saw the pics.  I guess I didn't zoom into the photo close enough.  Exactly how I mounted it.

Regarding the power supplies.  I've since bench checked both by shorting the pwr switch pin to ground and measured the outputs of both.  Both supplies are good.  Also check the pwr switch closure where it connects to the MB - good to go.  Clearly, the MB not sending the closure to the power supply.  Should have a replacement MB tomorrow afternoon.  Will reply after I swap it out and check.  BTW, if I didn't make it clear previously, I'm using the MSI motherboard.

Thanks for the help.


Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2017, 06:51:55 AM »
Thanks for that - saw the pics.  I guess I didn't zoom into the photo close enough.  Exactly how I mounted it.

Regarding the power supplies.  I've since bench checked both by shorting the pwr switch pin to ground and measured the outputs of both.  Both supplies are good.  Also check the pwr switch closure where it connects to the MB - good to go.  Clearly, the MB not sending the closure to the power supply.  Should have a replacement MB tomorrow afternoon.  Will reply after I swap it out and check.  BTW, if I didn't make it clear previously, I'm using the MSI motherboard.

Thanks for the help.

It does sounds like the motherboard is at fault. Good job figuring out the shorting trick. I didn't want to mention that because not everyone would be comfortable doing that, but it does the same thing as a power supply power on self tester.

And yes, I was assuming you had the MSI Z270I Gaming Pro AC, as it's the current recommended board in the guide. A shame if it really went bad that fast, but you'll find out soon!

smithrb

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2017, 12:43:30 PM »
Well, was definitely bad MB.  New one received, repeated the same procedure as the 1st attempt, but with 100% success.

This thing scoots!

I'm setting up a dual boot setup, one SSD - fedora, the other - Win10  Pro.

Struggling a bit with the proper UEFI setting to make to smooth, but at least it's up and running.

Appreciate all the help!

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2017, 02:14:43 PM »
Well, was definitely bad MB.  New one received, repeated the same procedure as the 1st attempt, but with 100% success.

This thing scoots!

I'm setting up a dual boot setup, one SSD - fedora, the other - Win10  Pro.

Struggling a bit with the proper UEFI setting to make to smooth, but at least it's up and running.

Appreciate all the help!

This is great news, a shame you had to spend so much time troubleshooting it though. At least it failed right away so that you could return it for a refund and buy a new one. Much easier than an RMA on a motherboard.

Are you having UEFI issues specific to the dual boot setup or performance more generally? I haven't set up a dual boot on an MSI board so I probably can't help you there, but can give you tips on the general use of the UEFI.

smithrb

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2017, 04:07:40 PM »
Looking to completely isolate to two disks and simply goto the boot menu at startup and select the one of interest and boot.

I guees I'm not seeing the setup needed from reading the MB manual.

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2017, 09:59:20 PM »
Looking to completely isolate to two disks and simply goto the boot menu at startup and select the one of interest and boot.

I guees I'm not seeing the setup needed from reading the MB manual.

A couple things you'll want to make sure of:

(1) Windows 8.1/ 10 WHQL Support should be Disabled
(2) Boot Mode Select should be set to LEGACY+UEFI

Both of those should be defaults, however, so unless you've changed them, that's not your issue. If you want to have the system always start with a boot menu, I don't think you can do that with a modern motherboard. But you can always tap a button to bring up a boot selection screen at startup. On my MSI test motherboard that is F11.

smithrb

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2017, 09:58:32 AM »
Got to this point on my own before I read your reply.  I'm good to go now.

Thanks again for all the help!

Arpie

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2017, 09:35:08 PM »
Cracking write-up, haven't had a gaming rig in years but I'm very tempted now! I've got a few questions regarding the build.

1. To cut costs I'm planning on going with the i3-7350k. Do you think this will leave enough headroom for the next 4 years? I'm planning to OC it but nothing extreme.

2. I'm also looking at various GTX 1050s instead. Both the EVGA GTX 1050 Ti SC Single Fan and Zotac GTX 1050 Ti 4GB Mini fit the size requirements and are blower-style (as far as I can tell). The EVGA is a little more expensive and runs a little cooler versus the cheaper (but hotter running) Zotac. Any thoughts on which would be better (again I'm planning to OC it - EVGA seems to run well up to ~1900 MHz). Again is this enough headroom for 4 years?

3. As far as RAM goes, is there a reason you chose to go with 3000 MHz instead of the slightly cheaper 2666 MHz? Is it because the 3000 has better CAS latency?

4. Would a single 16 GB stick of RAM be better for future-proofing? It's slightly more expensive and you lose the benefit of dual-channel but this motherboard (and all other mini-ITX ones I've seen) only has 2 RAM slots.

5. Are there any cheaper options for the motherboard? I usually like to invest in a good board because I can easily replace the CPU/GPU/RAM further down the line. I don't mind waiting (if there are any new ones coming soon) because I'm planning to see what the release of the GTX 20 series does to the prices of the 10 series.

Cheers

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Extreme Gaming Mini-ITX Build (SG13)
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2017, 08:06:27 AM »
Cracking write-up, haven't had a gaming rig in years but I'm very tempted now! I've got a few questions regarding the build.

1. To cut costs I'm planning on going with the i3-7350k. Do you think this will leave enough headroom for the next 4 years? I'm planning to OC it but nothing extreme.

2. I'm also looking at various GTX 1050s instead. Both the EVGA GTX 1050 Ti SC Single Fan and Zotac GTX 1050 Ti 4GB Mini fit the size requirements and are blower-style (as far as I can tell). The EVGA is a little more expensive and runs a little cooler versus the cheaper (but hotter running) Zotac. Any thoughts on which would be better (again I'm planning to OC it - EVGA seems to run well up to ~1900 MHz). Again is this enough headroom for 4 years?

3. As far as RAM goes, is there a reason you chose to go with 3000 MHz instead of the slightly cheaper 2666 MHz? Is it because the 3000 has better CAS latency?

4. Would a single 16 GB stick of RAM be better for future-proofing? It's slightly more expensive and you lose the benefit of dual-channel but this motherboard (and all other mini-ITX ones I've seen) only has 2 RAM slots.

5. Are there any cheaper options for the motherboard? I usually like to invest in a good board because I can easily replace the CPU/GPU/RAM further down the line. I don't mind waiting (if there are any new ones coming soon) because I'm planning to see what the release of the GTX 20 series does to the prices of the 10 series.

Cheers

Welcome to the Forum, Arpie!

You're proposing a number of changes to the system, and a few make a lot of sense to lower costs, a few others aren't as ideal. I'll go one by one:

(1) CPU: The Intel Core i3-7350K has dropped in price to around $150 since its introduction at $180, in part because it simply wasn't worth the original asking price. At $150, it's decent if you want to play around with overclocking, but for future-proofing, you're better off with a Core i5-7600K four-core CPU. Dual cores just aren't where it's at when it comes to gaming.

(2) GPU: The GTX 1050 Ti is a wonderful low-power GPU, but make sure you don't accidentally buy the GTX 1050. It's not the same thing! The cards you mention, like the EVGA GTX 1050 Ti SC, aren't really externally-exhausting, but that's OK with such low-power GPUs. They don't produce a lot of waste heat. The EVGA is a great pick, offering an upgraded cooler versus the Zotac, but an even better model if you can get it is the Gigabyte GTX 1050 Ti WindForce, which has a zero-fan RPM mode. The EVGA does not.

(3 & 4) RAM: DDR4-2666 is a lot slower than DDR4-3000, both because of the frequency and typically weaker timings. I wouldn't recommend it for a gaming system. And don't get a single stick. That limits performance far too much. You'll never need more than 16GB in this system. By the time 32GB of RAM is necessary, a lot more CPU power will also be necessary!

(5) Motherboard: You can go with the Gigabyte GA-Z270N-Gaming 5. It will save some money versus the Asus Z270I.