Author Topic: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide  (Read 13176 times)

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #75 on: May 26, 2019, 03:39:07 PM »
Sorry I missed that important comment. Since there is no feedback from the H60 comment, I might just go for the solution you provided in the guide. I have another question about this build (sorry I am just new to building pc, can't help to be so scared), will a blower style GPU (e.g. ASUS turbo) fits in better in this build? I assume that the CPU cooler is having a hard time cooling 9900k so base on this a blower style should help out with the stress for better thermals inside the case? Thanks for your help.

The cpu and gpu cooling in this build are totally separate, so they have no effect on each other. Given that a blower cooler can't even adequately cool an RTX 2080 Ti in an open case, it certainly isn't advisable here.

Jago

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #76 on: May 26, 2019, 05:19:46 PM »
Thanks for your reply, I will go on and choose a good open air gpu now :) Btw, do you think it will be worth waiting for ryzen 3000 series to replace i9 9900k in this build?

bensrichards

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #77 on: July 10, 2019, 12:02:25 PM »
Ari and Jago,

Wanted to share some info I've come across with respect to putting Corsair AIOs into the FTZ01 (or the Raven equivalent).  Back in 2014 a hardware rep for SilverStone posted on a forum addressing this question and stating that SilverStone had confirmed in house that the Corsair H60 would fit.  He (or she) posted pictures showing an H60 with one of the included 15mm thick case fans mated to the Corsair H60 waterblock.  There were apparently two versions of the H60 around that time frame, one with corrugated tubing and one without, and SilverStone says they verified that both would work.  The rep went on to say that the solution depends on a proper orientation of the water block and twisting the tubes a couple times.  The rep did not say what the correct water block orientation was, but from the pictures it looks like the block should be oriented so that the tubes exit the block towards the RAM, and the radiator should be oriented such that the tubes exit the radiator towards the gpu.  The tubes then coil counterclockwise from the block to the radiator 270 degrees.  Being 2014, the post obviously doesn't say anything about the most recent revision to the H60.

Second, I've found scattered reports of builders using both the H55 and H75 with success.  The H55 was the most common AIO I found used, and no one has much to say about installing it.  Two people raved about using the H75 because it has a slimmer 25mm radiator.  It looks to me like the H75 is sold as a push-pull AIO with two fans on either side of a 120mm radiator.  I presume anyone using it in a case like the FTZ01 is using only one fan, and even then may be subbing in a 15mm fan.

Anyway, finding some proven examples of relatively simple AIO installations in FTZ01s is enough to push me to give it a go.  I'll try to benchmark all three of my cooling options (stock Noctua NH-L12S, NH-L12S with Scythe 12mm fan added, Corsair H60) and post the results here for future users.  No promises that I'll be quick about it though.  My daughter turns 1 year old in 4 days and she's keeping me busy most of the time.   ;)

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #78 on: July 10, 2019, 12:23:16 PM »
Ari and Jago,

Wanted to share some info I've come across with respect to putting Corsair AIOs into the FTZ01 (or the Raven equivalent).  Back in 2014 a hardware rep for SilverStone posted on a forum addressing this question and stating that SilverStone had confirmed in house that the Corsair H60 would fit.  He (or she) posted pictures showing an H60 with one of the included 15mm thick case fans mated to the Corsair H60 waterblock.  There were apparently two versions of the H60 around that time frame, one with corrugated tubing and one without, and SilverStone says they verified that both would work.  The rep went on to say that the solution depends on a proper orientation of the water block and twisting the tubes a couple times.  The rep did not say what the correct water block orientation was, but from the pictures it looks like the block should be oriented so that the tubes exit the block towards the RAM, and the radiator should be oriented such that the tubes exit the radiator towards the gpu.  The tubes then coil counterclockwise from the block to the radiator 270 degrees.  Being 2014, the post obviously doesn't say anything about the most recent revision to the H60.

Second, I've found scattered reports of builders using both the H55 and H75 with success.  The H55 was the most common AIO I found used, and no one has much to say about installing it.  Two people raved about using the H75 because it has a slimmer 25mm radiator.  It looks to me like the H75 is sold as a push-pull AIO with two fans on either side of a 120mm radiator.  I presume anyone using it in a case like the FTZ01 is using only one fan, and even then may be subbing in a 15mm fan.

Anyway, finding some proven examples of relatively simple AIO installations in FTZ01s is enough to push me to give it a go.  I'll try to benchmark all three of my cooling options (stock Noctua NH-L12S, NH-L12S with Scythe 12mm fan added, Corsair H60) and post the results here for future users.  No promises that I'll be quick about it though.  My daughter turns 1 year old in 4 days and she's keeping me busy most of the time.   ;)

This is awesome info, bensrichards. But you know what - I can actually ask SilverStone about this directly. They may simply say they haven't tried Corsair's newest coolers, but at least we'll have a chance at more clarity. Hopefully I'll get the answer before your daughter turns 1 - definitely don't skip her birthday party planning to test CPU coolers!

bensrichards

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #79 on: July 10, 2019, 01:44:06 PM »
Thanks, Ari!

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #80 on: July 10, 2019, 09:34:11 PM »
Thanks, Ari!

Ben,

SilverStone's rep confirmed for me exactly what you found - that they had tested the older Corsair H60 (as stated in this forum, which is probably what you found already).

Here's his feedback based on the current market situation:

"it's been a while since we've recommended liquid cooling inside one of these cases.... we haven't had the need to check for AIO coolers in cases like the FTZ01 since there are now many more good low profile air coolers available."

So, you may be on your own, but if you are able to fit an AIO in, please report back!

n0chance

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #81 on: July 12, 2019, 08:43:42 AM »
Hi,

Iím still using an older setup from a previous guide (asus rog strix, 1080ti sc black in fractal core). one issue i have is if i plug in my headset/mic into the front aux ports, when i use mic in games, people say they hear a whining / aircraft engine noise in the background. i think it might have to do with the gpu interference because i can also hear a correlation (noise increases when iím running a game).

if i plug my headset to the back auxiliary ports that seems to have less noise but not ideal since i plug regular speakers there. my situation seems to be similar to https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/gpu-intefering-with-microphone-through-soundcard.2660502/

iím also using a cheap headset and donít want to buy an expensive one if that doesnít help. any ideas?

1) i prefer aux for convenience but is there performance / cost difference between aux/usb headsets? anything i lose from not using the onboard sound card?

2) or any other way to shoes or prevent the noise? would a better aux headset do anything?

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #82 on: July 12, 2019, 12:04:35 PM »
Hi,

Iím still using an older setup from a previous guide (asus rog strix, 1080ti sc black in fractal core). one issue i have is if i plug in my headset/mic into the front aux ports, when i use mic in games, people say they hear a whining / aircraft engine noise in the background. i think it might have to do with the gpu interference because i can also hear a correlation (noise increases when iím running a game).

if i plug my headset to the back auxiliary ports that seems to have less noise but not ideal since i plug regular speakers there. my situation seems to be similar to https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/gpu-intefering-with-microphone-through-soundcard.2660502/

iím also using a cheap headset and donít want to buy an expensive one if that doesnít help. any ideas?

1) i prefer aux for convenience but is there performance / cost difference between aux/usb headsets? anything i lose from not using the onboard sound card?

2) or any other way to shoes or prevent the noise? would a better aux headset do anything?

I've heard of this being a problem, but not specifically that the front panel jacks are worse than the rear jacks. At least you have rear jacks that are working well!

I don't think buying a more expensive 3.5mm headset is going to help, as this is a problem with the motherboard's audio implementation. I think you could get around it using a USB headset, but these are typically wireless. You'll probably only see USB on wired headsets that have a surround implementation, like the Logitech G432. Given the low cost of that headset, it might be worth trying. Another example is the slightly more expensive HyperX Cloud II.

Secret

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #83 on: July 12, 2019, 03:55:12 PM »
I've had similar problems and it was related to modem interference.  IDK if you're using a wireless router near it but you may try moving it away and seeing if that helps at all.

n0chance

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #84 on: July 16, 2019, 05:55:29 PM »
Thanks for the thoughts/comments - I decided to go with a usb headset as I think the gpu is interfering with the motherboard sound.

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #85 on: July 16, 2019, 06:58:00 PM »
Thanks for the thoughts/comments - I decided to go with a usb headset as I think the gpu is interfering with the motherboard sound.

Please let me know how it works out.

n0chance

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2019, 05:25:57 PM »
Thanks for the thoughts/comments - I decided to go with a usb headset as I think the gpu is interfering with the motherboard sound.

Please let me know how it works out.

I ended up getting the steelseries arctis 7 when it went on sale on prime day. The sound and microphone quality is a lot better and i no longer hear (or others hear) the whine noise come through.

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2019, 06:15:50 PM »
Thanks for the thoughts/comments - I decided to go with a usb headset as I think the gpu is interfering with the motherboard sound.

Please let me know how it works out.

I ended up getting the steelseries arctis 7 when it went on sale on prime day. The sound and microphone quality is a lot better and i no longer hear (or others hear) the whine noise come through.

Great to hear this worked out. Thanks for reporting back, as this will help me advise others who have the same problem.

bensrichards

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #88 on: July 27, 2019, 09:24:03 PM »
Hi there,

I'm checking in with my first round of benchmarks for FTZ01 cooler options.  I've so far run benchmarks for the Noctua NH-L12S with and without a Scythe slim fan installed for a push-pull configuration.  Following Ari's example, I used HWmonitor for temperature readings.  I took the minimum temperature of a 5 minute idle period, the maximum temp from a 5 minute stress test on CPUID, and the maximum temp from a 10 minute run on Prime95 small ffts.

Results are:

                               |  NH-L12S (Push only) | NH-L12S (Push & Pull)  |  H60
Idle                          |            36.00            |           35.00                 |   
Cpu-Z                      |             65.00            |           64.00                 | 
Prime95 Small FFTs   |            72.00             |            69.00                |


So... basically there's very little difference between the two set ups with an 8600k set to boost to 4.4GHz (MSI's Gaming Mode turned on in UEFI).  I don't have any type of decibel meter, so no results to share on noise.  With all my fan profiles set to default, it's basically inaudible for everything by the Prime95 test.

Because the results weren't more impressive, I decided to throw caution to the wind and overclock my 8600k.  This wasn't part of my original test plan, so I don't have numbers for the push only NH-L12S set up.  However, several months ago I tried to overclock the same processor with the push only cooler and couldn't get a stable system with  a 5GHz overclock.  Sooo, the goal was to see if the push-pull setup could facilitate a 5GHz overclock... and it did!  As I type this I'm running an 8600K overclocked to 5GHz in what is maybe a 13 or 14 litre case with, let's be honest, pretty mediocre venting.  I'd say that's pretty good performance from the NH-L12S with the Scythe slim fan.  The one caveat: the cooler sounds like a jet engine when cooling this overclocked cpu under high load.  It's totally intolerable to be honest.  Once I'm done tinkering with cooler, I will most definitely knock the processor back down to stock specs and enjoy the quiet.

I'll check back in once I do the H60 benchmarks.  I will have to purchase an H60 before that can happen though! :P

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #89 on: July 27, 2019, 10:51:21 PM »
Hi there,

I'm checking in with my first round of benchmarks for FTZ01 cooler options.  I've so far run benchmarks for the Noctua NH-L12S with and without a Scythe slim fan installed for a push-pull configuration.  Following Ari's example, I used HWmonitor for temperature readings.  I took the minimum temperature of a 5 minute idle period, the maximum temp from a 5 minute stress test on CPUID, and the maximum temp from a 10 minute run on Prime95 small ffts.

Results are:

                               |  NH-L12S (Push only) | NH-L12S (Push & Pull)  |  H60
Idle                          |            36.00            |           35.00                 |   
Cpu-Z                      |             65.00            |           64.00                 | 
Prime95 Small FFTs   |            72.00             |            69.00                |


So... basically there's very little difference between the two set ups with an 8600k set to boost to 4.4GHz (MSI's Gaming Mode turned on in UEFI).  I don't have any type of decibel meter, so no results to share on noise.  With all my fan profiles set to default, it's basically inaudible for everything by the Prime95 test.

Because the results weren't more impressive, I decided to throw caution to the wind and overclock my 8600k.  This wasn't part of my original test plan, so I don't have numbers for the push only NH-L12S set up.  However, several months ago I tried to overclock the same processor with the push only cooler and couldn't get a stable system with  a 5GHz overclock.  Sooo, the goal was to see if the push-pull setup could facilitate a 5GHz overclock... and it did!  As I type this I'm running an 8600K overclocked to 5GHz in what is maybe a 13 or 14 litre case with, let's be honest, pretty mediocre venting.  I'd say that's pretty good performance from the NH-L12S with the Scythe slim fan.  The one caveat: the cooler sounds like a jet engine when cooling this overclocked cpu under high load.  It's totally intolerable to be honest.  Once I'm done tinkering with cooler, I will most definitely knock the processor back down to stock specs and enjoy the quiet.

I'll check back in once I do the H60 benchmarks.  I will have to purchase an H60 before that can happen though! :P

This is awesome testing, bensrichards! The truth is that I came up with the push/pull configuration to allow users to dabble in overclocking, as you did, or to equip their systems with one of the 8-core processors and avoid throttling, which I believe could be an issue with the stock NH-L12S. Based on your testing, I'd say it's a success. The deltas you found at stock are actually fairly significant - that 3-degree delta in Prime95 would be the difference between two different tiers of coolers in many cooler roundups, so I'd say it's an upgrade. And then as you saw, you could overclock, but yes, it's pushing the limits of the cooler.

If you do buy the Corsair H60, please keep in mind that neither I nor SilverStone can endorse its use in the FTZ01, as we have not tested the cooler in that case to confirm it fits.

By the way, while you're here, you should enter the TBG Forum prize drawing, celebrating hitting 1,000 members!