Author Topic: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide  (Read 5757 times)

Bp4242

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2018, 11:02:29 AM »
Thank you Ari. You are the man! I will be recommending you to everyone as I hopefully get more involved in this hobby! When I save up the money and build it I will post the build!
Best,
Brett.

rbroders

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2018, 12:25:38 PM »
Hey guys, just finished putting together this build.  The only modification I made was to use a different CPU cooler.

The Noctua NH-L12S is only 70mm tall (your recommended Silverstone NT06-PRO-V2 is 83mm tall)

With the smaller cooler, I was able to install a 15mm chassis fan in the case door which blows directly onto the CPU cooler (which I turned to blow down onto the CPU).  You end up with a fan radiator fan sandwhich which does a great job of cooling.  I used the Noctua NF-A12-15 PWM (which is the same as the fan in the CPU cooler).

The fit is perfect with about 1mm between the chassis fan and the top of the CPU cooler.  I configured the BIOS to control both fans in PWM mode based on CPU temperature.

I was able to overclock the i7-8700K to 4.5Ghz (for all 6 cores) with the uCore at 4.3Ghz and 4.2Ghz during AVX instructions with AUTO vcore and all power saving modes enabled.  At full load the CPU uses 110W and the hottest core is ~94C.  The 1800rpm fans are a little noisy at full power, but its is amazingly fast for such a small build.

I might try delidding next for even better temps!  If I had known before I might have purchased a pre-delidded CPU, but now I can't have the computer off-line for a week to ship it, so I guess I'll try it myself...

--Bob

P.S.  No video card yet as I'm waiting for GTX 1180

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2018, 12:38:04 PM »
Hey guys, just finished putting together this build.  The only modification I made was to use a different CPU cooler.

The Noctua NH-L12S is only 70mm tall (your recommended Silverstone NT06-PRO-V2 is 83mm tall)

With the smaller cooler, I was able to install a 15mm chassis fan in the case door which blows directly onto the CPU cooler (which I turned to blow down onto the CPU).  You end up with a fan radiator fan sandwhich which does a great job of cooling.  I used the Noctua NF-A12-15 PWM (which is the same as the fan in the CPU cooler).

The fit is perfect with about 1mm between the chassis fan and the top of the CPU cooler.  I configured the BIOS to control both fans in PWM mode based on CPU temperature.

I was able to overclock the i7-8700K to 4.5Ghz (for all 6 cores) with the uCore at 4.3Ghz and 4.2Ghz during AVX instructions with AUTO vcore and all power saving modes enabled.  At full load the CPU uses 110W and the hottest core is ~94C.  The 1800rpm fans are a little noisy at full power, but its is amazingly fast for such a small build.

I might try delidding next for even better temps!  If I had known before I might have purchased a pre-delidded CPU, but now I can't have the computer off-line for a week to ship it, so I guess I'll try it myself...

--Bob

P.S.  No video card yet as I'm waiting for GTX 1180

Sounds like an awesome build, rbroders!

Just out of curiosity, isn't the Noctua NF-A12x15 PWM the same thickness as the stock SilverStone 120mm fans that come with the FTZ01-E chassis? The Noctua fans are actually better, and having them sync'd in a push-pull arrangement is very cool, but just wondering if you tried using the fan that was pre-installed in the case.

By the way, to crank up that overclock, you might try lowering the unCore and setting a bigger AVX offset (you really don't want it running much above 4GHz in my opinion for AVX). What are you using for a stress test to hit 94C? I hope that's not a gaming load.

And yes, the GTX 1180 is coming, likely announced at the end of August for mid-September release, but if history is any guide, it will sell out immediately at well beyond MSRP, and won't be available in quantity until November. Things could always be different, but I wouldn't bank on it!

rbroders

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2018, 05:44:32 PM »
I did use the stock 15mm Silverstone case fan (I was not expecting it to fit actually, and had purchased a 12mm fan to do the job).  It worked ok.  If memory serves, it kept the CPU below 95C at around 95W.  As I wanted to overclock a bit, I looked for a more powerful fan.  At 1800 rpm, the noctua works somewhat better (louder though).  My understanding is that some fans are designed for high airflow and some are designed for high pressure.  Not sure if my setup is ideal in that regard, but it seems to work pretty well.

I used Prime95 for my load, so its probably worse than any game.  At 4.2GHz for AVX loads the CPU uses 110W and also reaches about 94C (with 12 threads running).  I think I can get higher than 4.5GHz, but I have to force the voltage up and that makes the power and temps go way up.  I did tweak the speeds for when fewer cores are running, but it took a lot of load testing to make sure everything was stable.  51/50/48/45/45/45.

Fun, fun, fun!  --Bob


Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2018, 09:43:38 PM »
I did use the stock 15mm Silverstone case fan (I was not expecting it to fit actually, and had purchased a 12mm fan to do the job).  It worked ok.  If memory serves, it kept the CPU below 95C at around 95W.  As I wanted to overclock a bit, I looked for a more powerful fan.  At 1800 rpm, the noctua works somewhat better (louder though).  My understanding is that some fans are designed for high airflow and some are designed for high pressure.  Not sure if my setup is ideal in that regard, but it seems to work pretty well.

I used Prime95 for my load, so its probably worse than any game.  At 4.2GHz for AVX loads the CPU uses 110W and also reaches about 94C (with 12 threads running).  I think I can get higher than 4.5GHz, but I have to force the voltage up and that makes the power and temps go way up.  I did tweak the speeds for when fewer cores are running, but it took a lot of load testing to make sure everything was stable.  51/50/48/45/45/45.

Fun, fun, fun!  --Bob

Sounds like you've been doing some solid tuning. Did you try the fans with air blowing out of the case rather than in? While the Noctua cooler typically will run better blowing up, if you have an external vent right next to it, your approach is probably better.

ozdarkhorse

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2018, 04:30:35 PM »
So I bought all the parts on this list and I'm having difficulty figuring out how exactly you fit the SilverStone NT06-PRO-V2 in the case. Did you leave the fan on the heatsink? Which direction did you the face the prongs (silver tips of heatsink)? If you did leave the fan on, did you remove the shield from the module on the left of the mobo? Otherwise, I don't see how you were able to fit it in the case properly.

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2018, 04:56:00 PM »
So I bought all the parts on this list and I'm having difficulty figuring out how exactly you fit the SilverStone NT06-PRO-V2 in the case. Did you leave the fan on the heatsink? Which direction did you the face the prongs (silver tips of heatsink)? If you did leave the fan on, did you remove the shield from the module on the left of the mobo? Otherwise, I don't see how you were able to fit it in the case properly.

This is how it should look:



Note that the above photo used a different motherboard, but this orientation should work on the current build.

ozdarkhorse

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2018, 09:39:13 AM »
I saw that picture in previous comments. The problem is, once you orient the heat sink that way, the piping to the left sits on top of the mobo module and wont fully sit flush with the cpu. The only way I could get the heat sink in with the fan on was to face the prong side downwards. But even then the side of the fan sits on the mobo module and also doesn't sit flush. The rig is returning great benchmark scores on all the components except the cpu
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 09:45:56 AM by ozdarkhorse »

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2018, 09:55:17 AM »
You can actually bend the heatpipes slightly forward to provide more clearance for the motherboard's decorative heatsink cover. But thanks for bringing this to my attention. We may have to recommend a different motherboard, as this one's cover is really too big for an ITX board given the tight clearances. Unfortunately, the race to have the fanciest-looking motherboards has led many of the manufacturers to design out-of-spec boards. We've heard that even many tower heatsinks don't fit over these, so it's not just a problem for low-profile coolers.

If you want to exchange your motherboard for one that is sure to fit, go for the AsRock Z390M-ITX/AC. ASRock has wisely chosen not to use any I/O port cover, which can't be seen in an ITX build anyway.

ozdarkhorse

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2018, 10:31:46 AM »
If I bend the heatsink pipes forward wouldn't that cause it to be too tall at that point? I did buy the Noctua as well just incase. Do you think I'd fair better with that one instead, or is there and external water cooler heatsink youd recommend? I'd rather not swap the mobo out just bc of the massive pain it is haha.

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2018, 10:43:05 AM »
If I bend the heatsink pipes forward wouldn't that cause it to be too tall at that point? I did buy the Noctua as well just incase. Do you think I'd fair better with that one instead, or is there and external water cooler heatsink youd recommend? I'd rather not swap the mobo out just bc of the massive pain it is haha.

Oh yes, swapping motherboards is a pain. I'm actually afraid the Noctua won't be any better. It's actually offset further, which causes even more of a problem with motherboard interference.

And yes, bending the heatpipes up will push the cooler up closer to the PSU, but it's worth a try for now. I've actually reached out to SilverStone to make them aware of this issue, and will report back when I hear from them. It's certainly going to be a problem with just about every Z390 motherboard, in part because they required huge upgrades to their power delivery systems to support Intel's new "95W" 8-core processors, which are really more like 130W processors. The heatsinks, power connectors, and power phases necessary to support the 9900K, for example, simply can't fit properly on an ITX board. It's an industry-wide issue at this point, so the manufacturers are going to have to work together to address it.

Are you using the Asus Z390I motherboard, by the way? I've been studying the product photos of every Z390 board for the past 30 minutes, and I'd say this board really is beyond help when it comes to working with compact coolers. I've pulled it from the build, and I'm sorry you had to be the one to identify this issue.

ozdarkhorse

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2018, 02:02:16 PM »
Yeah, it's the Asus z390i. So there's no other heatsink youd recommend that you know would work?

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2018, 02:07:22 PM »
Yeah, it's the Asus z390i. So there's no other heatsink youd recommend that you know would work?

Well, yes, there is, but it's more limited in term of thermal capacity. The SilverStone AR06 will definitely work. I would caution you against overclocking a 9700K on it, but at stock speeds, it should be fine. Note that Asus is using a 95W thermal limit by default on its boards, while all other manufacturers are setting the thermal limit at maximum. This will ensure compatibility with 95W coolers like the AR06, but if you choose to enter the power settings the UEFI and increase the power limit, you may exceed the capacity of the cooler.

Overall, this is just a difficult time for high-end ITX builders, because current CPUs and GPUs are more power-hungry than ever due to a lack of advancement in chip manufacturing.

Ari Altman

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2018, 02:09:13 PM »
Actually, another cooler that will work on that motherboard when used in the FTZ01-E case is the excellent Noctua NH-L9x65. Again, it doesn't have the thermal capacity of the 120mm-based coolers, but it's as good as you'll get with the Asus board's large shroud.

ozdarkhorse

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Re: The TBG Ultra-Extreme ITX PC Buyer's Guide
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2018, 02:47:39 PM »
Well, I'll have to pull the mobo regardless it appears to swap the backplate for the heatsink. If it were you, would you just keep the heatsink and swap to the as rock instead?