Author Topic: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build  (Read 46218 times)

Stan Hope

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Re: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #180 on: July 18, 2019, 03:31:35 PM »
That's great, thank you, I'll let you know how I get on!

Homitu

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Re: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #181 on: July 20, 2019, 04:32:28 PM »
Hey Ari,

I have one additional question.  I just realized this build didn't list any fans to purchase.  Did I miss something, or are fans not required because of the case's compartmentalized style + the blower-style graphics card? 

Thanks!

Ari Altman

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Re: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #182 on: July 20, 2019, 04:53:22 PM »
Hey Ari,

I have one additional question.  I just realized this build didn't list any fans to purchase.  Did I miss something, or are fans not required because of the case's compartmentalized style + the blower-style graphics card? 

Thanks!

Not only are they not required, they can't be used as there would be nowhere to mount them!

The system will stay cool using intake from the cpu, gpu, and psu fans, which all pull directly from outside the case.

Homitu

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Re: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #183 on: July 21, 2019, 07:47:37 AM »
Hey Ari,

I have one additional question.  I just realized this build didn't list any fans to purchase.  Did I miss something, or are fans not required because of the case's compartmentalized style + the blower-style graphics card? 

Thanks!

Not only are they not required, they can't be used as there would be nowhere to mount them!

The system will stay cool using intake from the cpu, gpu, and psu fans, which all pull directly from outside the case.

Gotcha. 

I only asked because I saw this build video using this case, which used 2 fans to create a "positive pressure" chamber in the GPU section (he talks about them around the 8:00 mark.)  Also, the GPU he used was of the dual external fan variety, rather than the "blower type".  If this is the same case, it looks like you can remove one of the screen filter panels to install 2 fans there instead. 

But if I don't need to add any fans, all the better!

Thanks :)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 07:49:17 AM by Homitu »

Ari Altman

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Re: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #184 on: July 21, 2019, 10:02:43 AM »
Hey Ari,

I have one additional question.  I just realized this build didn't list any fans to purchase.  Did I miss something, or are fans not required because of the case's compartmentalized style + the blower-style graphics card? 

Thanks!

Not only are they not required, they can't be used as there would be nowhere to mount them!

The system will stay cool using intake from the cpu, gpu, and psu fans, which all pull directly from outside the case.

Gotcha. 

I only asked because I saw this build video using this case, which used 2 fans to create a "positive pressure" chamber in the GPU section (he talks about them around the 8:00 mark.)  Also, the GPU he used was of the dual external fan variety, rather than the "blower type".  If this is the same case, it looks like you can remove one of the screen filter panels to install 2 fans there instead. 

But if I don't need to add any fans, all the better!

Thanks :)

When using a blower-style RX 5700 XT, one of those fans would blow directly into a solid plastic wall (the shroud of the GPU, so it really wouldn't help at all. The other would blow into the GPU's own fan, which might help, but honestly it could just cause back-pressure and disrupt airflow to the fan. I hear Jayz2Cents talking a lot about positive pressure, which is a real concept, but in this case, it really doesn't apply. The air will simply get jammed up against other objects in the case. It's more relevant to larger cases.

Homitu

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Re: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #185 on: July 21, 2019, 05:26:42 PM »


When using a blower-style RX 5700 XT, one of those fans would blow directly into a solid plastic wall (the shroud of the GPU, so it really wouldn't help at all. The other would blow into the GPU's own fan, which might help, but honestly it could just cause back-pressure and disrupt airflow to the fan. I hear Jayz2Cents talking a lot about positive pressure, which is a real concept, but in this case, it really doesn't apply. The air will simply get jammed up against other objects in the case. It's more relevant to larger cases.

Weird, okay. 

Just realized I have another question.  It's been a LONG time since I've had a desktop PC (12+ years.)  I've just been using laptops in my tiny spaces, so I realized I've taken it for granted that I will always have wireless access to the internet.  I only JUST realized this might be an issue.  Will my desktop be able to get wireless internet, or will it be absolutely required that I directly connect via ethernet?   I'm genuinely not sure the latter will be possible in our current space.  The internet port is on the complete opposite side of our apartment in a small closet. 

Edit: I just checked the Q&A section for the MOBO in this build, and a few people answered that it has built in WIFI.  But feel free to confirm :)

Phew.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 05:32:21 PM by Homitu »

Ari Altman

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Re: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #186 on: July 21, 2019, 07:37:22 PM »


When using a blower-style RX 5700 XT, one of those fans would blow directly into a solid plastic wall (the shroud of the GPU, so it really wouldn't help at all. The other would blow into the GPU's own fan, which might help, but honestly it could just cause back-pressure and disrupt airflow to the fan. I hear Jayz2Cents talking a lot about positive pressure, which is a real concept, but in this case, it really doesn't apply. The air will simply get jammed up against other objects in the case. It's more relevant to larger cases.

Weird, okay. 

Just realized I have another question.  It's been a LONG time since I've had a desktop PC (12+ years.)  I've just been using laptops in my tiny spaces, so I realized I've taken it for granted that I will always have wireless access to the internet.  I only JUST realized this might be an issue.  Will my desktop be able to get wireless internet, or will it be absolutely required that I directly connect via ethernet?   I'm genuinely not sure the latter will be possible in our current space.  The internet port is on the complete opposite side of our apartment in a small closet. 

Edit: I just checked the Q&A section for the MOBO in this build, and a few people answered that it has built in WIFI.  But feel free to confirm :)

Phew.

Actually all midrange and up ($100+) ITX boards have it. Just a standard feature, which is nice given limited slots and ports.

Stan Hope

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Re: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #187 on: July 23, 2019, 02:13:36 AM »
...

(2) Coolers - Be careful about dimensions - you suggested the 2600X, which uses a 72mm-tall cooler that wouldn't fit in the RVZ02, but would in the FTZ01. So it's a good choice for you, but not for others who might be following this thread and using the RVZ02! By the way, if you have the budget for it, yes, get an aftermarket cooler. The Wraith Spire cooler that comes with the 2600X is very effective, but it's still not what I'd call quiet. I'd drop a 70mm-tall Noctua NH-L12S in there for absolute silence. Again, this is only an option in the FTZ01, not the RVZ02. And it's totally optional with either the 9400F or 2600X, as they both come with coolers.
...

Parts beginning to arrive now (though a nervous wait to see if the RTX 2060 Super actually comes given its general lack of availability on the internet!) and I'm beginning to think about putting it all together. On the cooler, I see the fan can be placed above or below the fins, and blowing upward or downwards to match the case airflow direction. I assume it has to be below the fins to fit the case, but which direction should the airflow be for the FT01? I would guess downwards, sucking air in from outside, which would match the case fans, but can't really tell what's best.

Ari Altman

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Re: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #188 on: July 23, 2019, 04:20:48 AM »
...

(2) Coolers - Be careful about dimensions - you suggested the 2600X, which uses a 72mm-tall cooler that wouldn't fit in the RVZ02, but would in the FTZ01. So it's a good choice for you, but not for others who might be following this thread and using the RVZ02! By the way, if you have the budget for it, yes, get an aftermarket cooler. The Wraith Spire cooler that comes with the 2600X is very effective, but it's still not what I'd call quiet. I'd drop a 70mm-tall Noctua NH-L12S in there for absolute silence. Again, this is only an option in the FTZ01, not the RVZ02. And it's totally optional with either the 9400F or 2600X, as they both come with coolers.
...

Parts beginning to arrive now (though a nervous wait to see if the RTX 2060 Super actually comes given its general lack of availability on the internet!) and I'm beginning to think about putting it all together. On the cooler, I see the fan can be placed above or below the fins, and blowing upward or downwards to match the case airflow direction. I assume it has to be below the fins to fit the case, but which direction should the airflow be for the FT01? I would guess downwards, sucking air in from outside, which would match the case fans, but can't really tell what's best.

Actually, there's just one right way: fan mounted underneath blowing up and out of the heatsink. Fans are very ineffective when tasked with pulling air through constricted surfaces like a heatsink, but better at pushing through them. And at 70mm tall with a 15mm-thick fan, the NH- L12S would be a bit too high to fit in the FTZ01, which had 83mm of clearance.

Stan Hope

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Re: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #189 on: July 23, 2019, 05:10:26 AM »
Thank you, good to know! I probably would have done it the other way, and assumed poor cooling was down to the SFF case!

Homitu

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Re: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #190 on: July 30, 2019, 10:27:53 PM »
Hello again,

So I finally got all my parts and attempted to put this bad boy together!  I can't quite get the machine running, however.  I am able to power it on, but I'm met with an error on screen stating "Reboot and select proper boot device or insert boot media in selected boot device and press a key."  I have my windwos 10 flash drive plugged into a USB port.  I honestly don't know if I plugged the correct cords into the correct USB ports on the MOBO, though.  My keyboard appears to be receiving power, however, and the screen responds to a key press (it just refreshes and gives the same error prompt.) 

Things to note:

1) I was left with a few extra cables from my power supply: a 2nd "VGA" cable (which I think would be used for a 2nd graphics card), a "periph" cable (which I believe would be for any fans, if I were using them, which I'm not), and a SATA cable (which I gather would be for a hard drive, but am I correct in stating this particular SSD, which attaches directly to the MOBO, laying down flat, does not require any direct power from the PSU?)  I couldn't find a single place on the MOBO to attach the SATA cable if needed.  Nor could I find any information on Crucial's manual or website regarding the necessity of a SATA cable for this particular SSD. 

2) My monitor won't get a DP signal through the GPU port, but will get a signal through the MOBO port.  Idk if that is normal for a brand new build until device drivers are installed. 

I think that's all I've got as far as details go right now.  Please help!

Thanks in advance!


Edit: got the computer to boot and windows to install! Have no idea about anything else, but I need to head to bed. I値l check on the GPU tomorrow.

I did, however, hear the CPU fan kick in temporarily (the recommended replacement fan), and my god was it loud. Like something seriously sounded off about it, like it was running up against something. No chords should be against it. What else would cause that? I知 using this case vertically, but I壇 assume a good fan would be totally ok with that. Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 11:25:16 PM by Homitu »

Stan Hope

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Re: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #191 on: July 31, 2019, 01:14:50 AM »
Brand new PC up and running! Did a quick UserBenchMark:

UserBenchmarks: Game 112%, Desk 106%, Work 69%
CPU: Intel Core i5-9400F - 82.2%
GPU: Nvidia RTX 2060-Super - 131.8%
SSD: Crucial P1 3D NVMe PCIe M.2 1TB - 221%
RAM: Crucial BLS8G4D26BFSBK.8FD 2x8GB - 87.3%
MBD: Asrock H370M-ITX/ac

Also in my build:
Case: FTZ-01
PSU: EVGA 550W Gold SFX
CPU Fan: Noctua NH-L12S
Optical Drive: LG Internal Slim Slot Loading DVD

So all in all pretty pleased with the results. It's night and day compared to my 6-year old Dell Inspiron laptop. I only have a 1080p monitor, so haven't really stretched it. Planning to go to 1440p 144Hz some time in the next year, so will see what it's really capable of then.

Some observations from a newbie builder:
1. A magnetic screwdriver literally makes this possible. Jeweller's screwdriver set was also useful, and not just for the M2 drive - I regularly found myself using them to push cables into place.

2. I installed the cooler before putting the motherboard in the case, and then put the mobo in before connecting the cables. With hindsight I should have put the mobo in fist, connected the cables and then add the cooler. Once the cooler is in place some ports are inaccessible, and others very difficult to reach.

3. When pushing things into place it's hard to get the pressure just right. I was over cautious with the M2 SSD, and hadn't clicked it in (even though I managed to get the screw in place). I only noticed when doing something else, and saw it wasn't quite straight, so fortunate to avoid some pain there. Connecting the case usb cable in, I was pushing quite hard, expecting to feel a click and didn't, and then realised I was putting quite a lot of pressure on the motherboard. I decided that would be best just to leave, and come back to if the ports didn't work (they do).

4. Cables! True to my civil engineering background, I physically put the components in place and thought I'd done most of the work! I'd read that cabling was tricking in a SFF, but sort of assumed I'd be ok! Aside from the trouble connecting everything around the CPU cooler, there are a lot of cables to fit in. In the end it felt a little like stuffing a suitcase for going on holiday getting the lid back on. Not quite how I'd imagined it, but it's hidden and functional, so that works for me.

5. Switching on was magic, I couldn't believe it worked first time! My regular HD TV complained that it didn't support the resolution, so had to switch to a monitor for set up, but then it was fine. One of the case fans didn't work (I'd connected it to the water cooler case fan port - I don't know if this was wrong, but now I've used the splitter and connected to the other case fan port.

6. RGB etc. My GPU is quite nice looking (RTX 2060 super founders edition in the end), and has a pleasing green glow. When I started out, I thought RGB was an unnecessary vanity, and I wouldn't really want it. But having put the effort in, and seen what a nice GPU looks like, I'd be tempted to go for a case with a window in future.

7. A big thank you to Tech Buyer's Guru! I really enjoyed this project from start to finish, and am delighted with my new PC. As I was building, I looked at the array of components and wires I had, and couldn't quite believe that I had all the right pieces. It's been a long held ambition of mine to build a PC, and I couldn't have done it without your help!

tl;dr
Building my first PC, and starting in a SFF case was challenging, but worthwhile, and a big thank you to TBG for making it possible for me!

Ari Altman

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Re: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #192 on: July 31, 2019, 07:52:18 AM »
Hello again,

So I finally got all my parts and attempted to put this bad boy together!  I can't quite get the machine running, however.  I am able to power it on, but I'm met with an error on screen stating "Reboot and select proper boot device or insert boot media in selected boot device and press a key."  I have my windwos 10 flash drive plugged into a USB port.  I honestly don't know if I plugged the correct cords into the correct USB ports on the MOBO, though.  My keyboard appears to be receiving power, however, and the screen responds to a key press (it just refreshes and gives the same error prompt.) 

Things to note:

1) I was left with a few extra cables from my power supply: a 2nd "VGA" cable (which I think would be used for a 2nd graphics card), a "periph" cable (which I believe would be for any fans, if I were using them, which I'm not), and a SATA cable (which I gather would be for a hard drive, but am I correct in stating this particular SSD, which attaches directly to the MOBO, laying down flat, does not require any direct power from the PSU?)  I couldn't find a single place on the MOBO to attach the SATA cable if needed.  Nor could I find any information on Crucial's manual or website regarding the necessity of a SATA cable for this particular SSD. 

2) My monitor won't get a DP signal through the GPU port, but will get a signal through the MOBO port.  Idk if that is normal for a brand new build until device drivers are installed. 

I think that's all I've got as far as details go right now.  Please help!

Thanks in advance!


Edit: got the computer to boot and windows to install! Have no idea about anything else, but I need to head to bed. I値l check on the GPU tomorrow.

I did, however, hear the CPU fan kick in temporarily (the recommended replacement fan), and my god was it loud. Like something seriously sounded off about it, like it was running up against something. No chords should be against it. What else would cause that? I知 using this case vertically, but I壇 assume a good fan would be totally ok with that. Any suggestions?

Homitu - so glad you got it working. You are right that the M.2 SSD you are using requires no cables - that's the beauty of it (in addition to its speed!).

Now, as for the noise you are hearing, can you confirm which cooler you are using? Is it the optional SilverStone AR06? It has a maximum speed of 2500RPM, which would be pretty loud. It will indeed spin up to full speed at bootup. As long as they quiet down after this initial sequence, it's fine. But if it's loud during use, then we'll have to take a closer look.

Homitu

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Re: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #193 on: July 31, 2019, 08:18:56 AM »
Hello again,

So I finally got all my parts and attempted to put this bad boy together!  I can't quite get the machine running, however.  I am able to power it on, but I'm met with an error on screen stating "Reboot and select proper boot device or insert boot media in selected boot device and press a key."  I have my windwos 10 flash drive plugged into a USB port.  I honestly don't know if I plugged the correct cords into the correct USB ports on the MOBO, though.  My keyboard appears to be receiving power, however, and the screen responds to a key press (it just refreshes and gives the same error prompt.) 

Things to note:

1) I was left with a few extra cables from my power supply: a 2nd "VGA" cable (which I think would be used for a 2nd graphics card), a "periph" cable (which I believe would be for any fans, if I were using them, which I'm not), and a SATA cable (which I gather would be for a hard drive, but am I correct in stating this particular SSD, which attaches directly to the MOBO, laying down flat, does not require any direct power from the PSU?)  I couldn't find a single place on the MOBO to attach the SATA cable if needed.  Nor could I find any information on Crucial's manual or website regarding the necessity of a SATA cable for this particular SSD. 

2) My monitor won't get a DP signal through the GPU port, but will get a signal through the MOBO port.  Idk if that is normal for a brand new build until device drivers are installed. 

I think that's all I've got as far as details go right now.  Please help!

Thanks in advance!


Edit: got the computer to boot and windows to install! Have no idea about anything else, but I need to head to bed. I値l check on the GPU tomorrow.

I did, however, hear the CPU fan kick in temporarily (the recommended replacement fan), and my god was it loud. Like something seriously sounded off about it, like it was running up against something. No chords should be against it. What else would cause that? I知 using this case vertically, but I壇 assume a good fan would be totally ok with that. Any suggestions?

Homitu - so glad you got it working. You are right that the M.2 SSD you are using requires no cables - that's the beauty of it (in addition to its speed!).

Now, as for the noise you are hearing, can you confirm which cooler you are using? Is it the optional SilverStone AR06? It has a maximum speed of 2500RPM, which would be pretty loud. It will indeed spin up to full speed at bootup. As long as they quiet down after this initial sequence, it's fine. But if it's loud during use, then we'll have to take a closer look.

Hey Ari,

The optional CPU cooler I got wasn't the SilverSone AR06, but rather the Noctua NH-L9i.  Was this part part of the build recently updated?  We discussed coolers in an earlier post.  You had recommended a different cooler for a different case (which I accidentally purchased, but cancelled the order on time), but informed me that for the Node 202, I needed to stick with the Noctua NH-L9i because the other one wouldn't fit. 

Hoping I have the right fan! 

I can inspect more closely when I try to continue my setup process at home later, but it seriously sounded like the fan was scraping up against something.  It wasn't just normal loud fan noises of blowing air.  It was a roar and a grind.  During the moments of silence, the fan simply didn't blow at all, which I thought was unusual.  I thought the fans always blew at least lightly, but maybe I'm wrong about that? 

Ari Altman

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Re: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #194 on: July 31, 2019, 09:11:15 AM »
Brand new PC up and running! Did a quick UserBenchMark:

UserBenchmarks: Game 112%, Desk 106%, Work 69%
CPU: Intel Core i5-9400F - 82.2%
GPU: Nvidia RTX 2060-Super - 131.8%
SSD: Crucial P1 3D NVMe PCIe M.2 1TB - 221%
RAM: Crucial BLS8G4D26BFSBK.8FD 2x8GB - 87.3%
MBD: Asrock H370M-ITX/ac

Also in my build:
Case: FTZ-01
PSU: EVGA 550W Gold SFX
CPU Fan: Noctua NH-L12S
Optical Drive: LG Internal Slim Slot Loading DVD

So all in all pretty pleased with the results. It's night and day compared to my 6-year old Dell Inspiron laptop. I only have a 1080p monitor, so haven't really stretched it. Planning to go to 1440p 144Hz some time in the next year, so will see what it's really capable of then.

Some observations from a newbie builder:
1. A magnetic screwdriver literally makes this possible. Jeweller's screwdriver set was also useful, and not just for the M2 drive - I regularly found myself using them to push cables into place.

2. I installed the cooler before putting the motherboard in the case, and then put the mobo in before connecting the cables. With hindsight I should have put the mobo in fist, connected the cables and then add the cooler. Once the cooler is in place some ports are inaccessible, and others very difficult to reach.

3. When pushing things into place it's hard to get the pressure just right. I was over cautious with the M2 SSD, and hadn't clicked it in (even though I managed to get the screw in place). I only noticed when doing something else, and saw it wasn't quite straight, so fortunate to avoid some pain there. Connecting the case usb cable in, I was pushing quite hard, expecting to feel a click and didn't, and then realised I was putting quite a lot of pressure on the motherboard. I decided that would be best just to leave, and come back to if the ports didn't work (they do).

4. Cables! True to my civil engineering background, I physically put the components in place and thought I'd done most of the work! I'd read that cabling was tricking in a SFF, but sort of assumed I'd be ok! Aside from the trouble connecting everything around the CPU cooler, there are a lot of cables to fit in. In the end it felt a little like stuffing a suitcase for going on holiday getting the lid back on. Not quite how I'd imagined it, but it's hidden and functional, so that works for me.

5. Switching on was magic, I couldn't believe it worked first time! My regular HD TV complained that it didn't support the resolution, so had to switch to a monitor for set up, but then it was fine. One of the case fans didn't work (I'd connected it to the water cooler case fan port - I don't know if this was wrong, but now I've used the splitter and connected to the other case fan port.

6. RGB etc. My GPU is quite nice looking (RTX 2060 super founders edition in the end), and has a pleasing green glow. When I started out, I thought RGB was an unnecessary vanity, and I wouldn't really want it. But having put the effort in, and seen what a nice GPU looks like, I'd be tempted to go for a case with a window in future.

7. A big thank you to Tech Buyer's Guru! I really enjoyed this project from start to finish, and am delighted with my new PC. As I was building, I looked at the array of components and wires I had, and couldn't quite believe that I had all the right pieces. It's been a long held ambition of mine to build a PC, and I couldn't have done it without your help!

tl;dr
Building my first PC, and starting in a SFF case was challenging, but worthwhile, and a big thank you to TBG for making it possible for me!

Welcome to the wonderful world of building your own PCs, Stan Hope! It sounds like you did a great job, especially given that it started up on the first try.

Now, a couple of thoughts on your feedback:

(1) In the FTZ01 case, you actually can't install the motherboard before installing the heatsink, as there is no access to the back of the board once it's installed. This is a pretty big annoyance, but it's true in a lot of ITX cases, including the SilverStone SG13, one of TBG's top picks and one that's extremely popular among TBG readers. So the only way you could get around the issue of cables being hard to install (particularly the 8-pin EPS power cable, which is nearly impossible), would be to install the cable and have it hanging off the motherboard, then install the cooler, then install the board in the case, and finally route the EPS cable back to the modular port on the motherboard.

(2) You are correct that the case's USB 3.0 cable doesn't click in, but it sure would be nice if there were some feedback to know it's attached. Unfortunately, the standard for USB 3.0 was a pretty terrible one, as the cable is stiff, the connector is huge, and it also tends to fall out. All in all, a fail on the part of the USB consortium, but the newer USB 3.1 Gen 2 standard is quite a bit better, it will just take time to be adopted.

(3) Yes, RGB is cool! It's a bit hard to add windows into ITX builds - you can read TBG's review of the SilverStone LD03 to learn how the glass-enclosed case sacrifices some cooling potential in pursuit of the ultimate in aesthetics. Photo below:



Perhaps a more successful approach is SilverStone's RVZ03-ARGB, which simply adds ARGB to the front panel, rather than trying to give a view to the inside. Note that this is actually the same chassis as your FTZ01!

I think manufacturers are really still coming to terms with how to add RGB to small cases, and my take is that they will need to use mesh rather than glass, which isn't quite as sleek-looking, but much better for airflow. One of my favorite cases ever is the Corsair Carbide 500R, which used a coarse mesh front panel to allow its then-advanced white LEDs to shine through. Adding glass to the front may be all the rage, but it's a pretty bad solution for ITX cases. See below for a nostalgia photo from 2014 of the 500R in full effect!



tl;dr
Building PCs never gets old, so welcome to the fold!