Author Topic: TBG's $1,250 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build  (Read 27511 times)

Ari Altman

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Re: TBG's $1,200 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #135 on: November 22, 2017, 12:51:58 PM »
Ari - The PSU looks great, but it also looks like it uses some kind of zero-fan mode, so would it also give me some problems?

But I think this PSU might be the right choise, even though I've seen that others had some problems with the fan controller.

I just hope that the temps won't get too high in this small case. You're sure that ML08 can handle it or should I find an alternative case with a bit more room in it? I still want's a slim like the ML08 or FTZ01, but I don't see many other alternatives.

You won't find a better setup than this. Slim cases are always somewhat limited by design. The SX700 power supply is in a completely different class of products than the ones you've read about with zero fan issues.

sbi85

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Re: TBG's $1,200 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #136 on: November 24, 2017, 02:50:59 AM »
Hey guys,

I just wanted to check the RAM.
There is the Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3000MHz in the guide. Which I can get for around 165.58.
However things like a HyperX Predator 16GB (2x8GB) CL15 3000MHz DDR4 is available at 109.99.

Is there such a difference in performance?


Hey there sbi85, and welcome to the Forum!

Right now, RAM prices are increasing at a very fast pace, due to a massive chip shortage. The price you found for the Predator RAM seems very unlikely to be correct. Is it actually in stock at that price? If so, get it while you can. The Corsair RAM is closer to the worldwide average right now for DDR4-3000. The one thing I don't like about it for this build is that its extremely high profile, and will limit cooler upgrade options in the future, although the cooler recommended in the guide will work just fine.

You might be right. The price is there but the item is unavailable: https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/hyperx-predator-16gb-2x8gb-cl15-3000mhz-ddr4-desktop-memory-black-a52wx
I hope to find a place where the Corsair one is discounted during Black friday.
So you DO recommend buying the RAM now regardless of discounts then?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 03:00:53 AM by sbi85 »

Ari Altman

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Re: TBG's $1,200 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #137 on: November 24, 2017, 06:03:41 AM »
Hey guys,

I just wanted to check the RAM.
There is the Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3000MHz in the guide. Which I can get for around 165.58.
However things like a HyperX Predator 16GB (2x8GB) CL15 3000MHz DDR4 is available at 109.99.

Is there such a difference in performance?


Hey there sbi85, and welcome to the Forum!

Right now, RAM prices are increasing at a very fast pace, due to a massive chip shortage. The price you found for the Predator RAM seems very unlikely to be correct. Is it actually in stock at that price? If so, get it while you can. The Corsair RAM is closer to the worldwide average right now for DDR4-3000. The one thing I don't like about it for this build is that its extremely high profile, and will limit cooler upgrade options in the future, although the cooler recommended in the guide will work just fine.

You might be right. The price is there but the item is unavailable: https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/hyperx-predator-16gb-2x8gb-cl15-3000mhz-ddr4-desktop-memory-black-a52wx
I hope to find a place where the Corsair one is discounted during Black friday.
So you DO recommend buying the RAM now regardless of discounts then?

You will not find many discounts on RAM for Black Friday. And since it's only going to get more expensive from now until mid-2018, well, you're kind of stuck. Yes, you should buy it now if you want to buy it at all.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 07:20:48 AM by Ari Altman »

palbarta

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Re: TBG's $1,200 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #138 on: December 01, 2017, 02:31:55 AM »
Hi Ari,

I have been looking at your great guide for some time and I decided a few weeks ago that I am gonna build it for my xmas vacation. However I got totally confused over the last few weeks about the CPU situation. Most of my confusion probably comes from the i5 8400 shortage. I checked some tests and it seems to me that:
- i5 8400 has ~10% advantage over the Ryzen 1600x in FPS (gaming ofc)
- 65W vs 95W -> more power headroom for the other parts, great because of the somewhat limited 450W PU
- 65W vs 95W -> easier to keep it cool, great for the slim case
- Ryzen is better when heavy multithreading is needed -> but for games that's usually not the case
- 8400 includes a GPU -> for games that probably does not really matter, but still it makes it more versatile and flexible

So in the end I would say 8400 is better for this build if I don't plan to do any kind of heavy multithreading (like rendering). One could argue about the price, but Ryzen does not have a cooler while 8400 has a stock cooler and after some research I found that it's probably enough for gaming.

In Hungary currently:
AMD Ryzen 5 1600X + ASRock AB350 Gaming-ITX/ac + Noctua NH-L9a-AM4  = ~430 USD in local currency, which is exactly the price point for i5 8400 preorder + Z370 mATX preorder (should be arriving in 2 weeks). And i5-8400 currently has a huge premium on it because of the shortage and Z370 is an overkill for this build - and still if both configs would be both available right now then 8400 + Z370 would be the better choice because of its performance for the same price.

But I think about canceling my preorder and see what happens in the next few weeks, because I would say that either the suggested retail price won't be happening for 8400 anytime soon or AMD has to adjust its prices as well, and also the non-Z boards should be coming in January. Every way I look at it the suggested $182.00 - $187.00 for i5-8400 currently seems too good to be true at the moment, but if that will be the price when the shortage will be solved (which Intel promised by mid-dec, so it's 2 weeks away) then I think it's clearly the winner in my book for that price - actually even with a Z370. So I expect the prices to go lower significantly in the next 2 weeks. I know that it's a waiting game that never ends because a newer and better stuff is always coming but now I got totally excited about 8400 and it's realtively low suggested price, so I give it 2-3 weeks to see what's happening and maybe I can still grab one before xmas :)

Also it was quite interesting that in DX12 games Ryzen seemed to perform quite better than 8400. I don't know what it means for the future, but it's exciting as hell for sure :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 04:20:41 AM by palbarta »

Ari Altman

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Re: TBG's $1,200 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #139 on: December 01, 2017, 07:56:50 AM »
Hi Ari,

I have been looking at your great guide for some time and I decided a few weeks ago that I am gonna build it for my xmas vacation. However I got totally confused over the last few weeks about the CPU situation. Most of my confusion probably comes from the i5 8400 shortage. I checked some tests and it seems to me that:
- i5 8400 has ~10% advantage over the Ryzen 1600x in FPS (gaming ofc)
- 65W vs 95W -> more power headroom for the other parts, great because of the somewhat limited 450W PU
- 65W vs 95W -> easier to keep it cool, great for the slim case
- Ryzen is better when heavy multithreading is needed -> but for games that's usually not the case
- 8400 includes a GPU -> for games that probably does not really matter, but still it makes it more versatile and flexible

So in the end I would say 8400 is better for this build if I don't plan to do any kind of heavy multithreading (like rendering). One could argue about the price, but Ryzen does not have a cooler while 8400 has a stock cooler and after some research I found that it's probably enough for gaming.

In Hungary currently:
AMD Ryzen 5 1600X + ASRock AB350 Gaming-ITX/ac + Noctua NH-L9a-AM4  = ~430 USD in local currency, which is exactly the price point for i5 8400 preorder + Z370 mATX preorder (should be arriving in 2 weeks). And i5-8400 currently has a huge premium on it because of the shortage and Z370 is an overkill for this build - and still if both configs would be both available right now then 8400 + Z370 would be the better choice because of its performance for the same price.

But I think about canceling my preorder and see what happens in the next few weeks, because I would say that either the suggested retail price won't be happening for 8400 anytime soon or AMD has to adjust its prices as well, and also the non-Z boards should be coming in January. Every way I look at it the suggested $182.00 - $187.00 for i5-8400 currently seems too good to be true at the moment, but if that will be the price when the shortage will be solved (which Intel promised by mid-dec, so it's 2 weeks away) then I think it's clearly the winner in my book for that price - actually even with a Z370. So I expect the prices to go lower significantly in the next 2 weeks. I know that it's a waiting game that never ends because a newer and better stuff is always coming but now I got totally excited about 8400 and it's realtively low suggested price, so I give it 2-3 weeks to see what's happening and maybe I can still grab one before xmas :)

Also it was quite interesting that in DX12 games Ryzen seemed to perform quite better than 8400. I don't know what it means for the future, but it's exciting as hell for sure :)

There's just one catch, palbarta...

The Core i5-8400 doesn't exist in the United States. Intel is allocating its extremely limited production capacity to the Core i7-8700K right now, which is the only Coffee Lake six-core you can reliably buy. If things are different where you live, go for the 8400, it's a very nice CPU.

And good luck getting non-Z boards in January. Intel may promise that, but board partners like Asus, Gigabyte, and MSI have been totally burned by Intel and its delayed product releases. They have a huge inventory of Z boards sitting around, even offering rebates on some of them.

palbarta

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Re: TBG's $1,200 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #140 on: December 01, 2017, 08:06:32 AM »
I thought that in the US you have the same situation as here: very limited stock for an inflated (+20-25%) price. My point was that even with the inflated price and the Z board maybe it's still worth getting it. I wouldn't have thought that the 8400 is completely non-existent in the US at the moment.

Ari Altman

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Re: TBG's $1,200 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #141 on: December 01, 2017, 08:11:13 AM »
I thought that in the US you have the same situation as here: very limited stock for an inflated (+20-25%) price. My point was that even with the inflated price and the Z board maybe it's still worth getting it. I wouldn't have thought that the 8400 is completely non-existent in the US at the moment.

The Core i5-8400 cannot be purchased in the US.

JARUNIT

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Re: TBG's $1,200 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #142 on: December 02, 2017, 01:43:18 PM »
Hi Ari thanks for such a great website. I am working through getting parts together almost exactly as per the parts you have recommended except for the GPU, I am planning to go for a G1 1070 which from your earlier comments is a good upgrade and fit for this case?

Secondly the nominated cooler is a bit difficult to come by here in Australia, I was wondering if there was a good alternative you might also recommend?

Thanks again
Jaime

Ari Altman

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Re: TBG's $1,200 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #143 on: December 02, 2017, 02:28:57 PM »
Hi Ari thanks for such a great website. I am working through getting parts together almost exactly as per the parts you have recommended except for the GPU, I am planning to go for a G1 1070 which from your earlier comments is a good upgrade and fit for this case?

Secondly the nominated cooler is a bit difficult to come by here in Australia, I was wondering if there was a good alternative you might also recommend?

Thanks again
Jaime

Welcome to the Forum, Jaime!

The GTX 1070 is a great upgrade for this build, as would be the GTX 1070 Ti, which may be a better value at this point (it's 15% faster, and often just 5-10% more expensive in the US). Just note that you should avoid any models that are more than two slots wide, and you should also avoid models that are very tall. Length isn't an issue in this case, but these other dimensions are. A good choice is the EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 or EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 Ti model.

In terms of a cooler, you need to make sure that any cooler you buy is 58mm tall or less, and has an AM4 bracket (if you're building the new AMD Ryzen-based system). There are very few low-profile coolers with that type of mount, but many have optional mounts that you can get for free or at a nominal cost from the manufacturer. Some options are the Cryorig C7 and SilverStone AR06. In theory the Scythe Big Shuriken Rev. B would fit, but I don't believe Scythe has released an AM4 retrofit kit for this cooler.

t3nshi

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Re: TBG's $1,200 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #144 on: December 15, 2017, 09:21:34 PM »
Hi, new to this forum and a total noob at PC building! I'm trying to make my first PC for the first time, and I was wondering if I could have some advice.

I'm find this build very interesting because it sounds like it would be good for digital art (Photoshop, Maya maybe?) as well as gaming.

The problem is, I live in Japan, and I can't find some of the components (mainly the Video card and the cooler).
I looked at November's build and its component for those parts (Cooler: SilverStone AR06, Video card:
Zotac GeForce GTX 1060 6GB Mini) and I found that I can get those here.
Would they still be compatible with the other parts? I suppose it wouldn't be a problem for the cooler, but I really have no experience on this.

In case not, can you recommend me a good graphic card? Keep in mind that I will go dual screen at some point, possibly hooking up a big cintiq to the PC.

I was also thinking of upping the RAM a bit, since I was thinking of doing some real-time art streamings from time to time, and I want to be sure to be able to do it without too much of a problem. Do you think it would be necessary to do so? And in that case, what component do you recommend?

Thank you in advance for your attention!

Ari Altman

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Re: TBG's $1,200 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #145 on: December 15, 2017, 10:15:40 PM »
Welcome, t3nshi!

Sounds like you have some very interesting uses for your PC. Great that you're looking to build a PC for your art creation.

This build now uses a Ryzen processor from AMD. That limits cooler choices somewhat.  You cannot use the Silverstone AR06, as there is no socket AM4 (Ryzen) adapter from Silverstone for this model. If the Noctua in the guide is unavailable, another option is the Cryorig C7, which you can order an AM4 adapter for.

I can't imagine your art streaming will need more than 16GB, and with RAM prices at all time highs, now is not a good time to buy more than you need.

As for the video card, any of the smaller models will work, including the Zotac.

t3nshi

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Re: TBG's $1,200 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #146 on: December 16, 2017, 12:02:50 AM »
Thank you very much!

My current machine is a Cintiq Companion, and it got very old very quickly. Even some game making programs that shouldn't be too taxing like Game Maker Studio 2 make it sweat, and I really need to step up my game-making game ;)

Also, since I don't know when I'll go away from Japan and move back to Italy, I'd rather make an SFF, so it's easier to take abroad!

sbi85

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Re: TBG's $1,200 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #147 on: January 02, 2018, 01:38:13 AM »
Hi Ari,

I have been looking at your great guide for some time and I decided a few weeks ago that I am gonna build it for my xmas vacation. However I got totally confused over the last few weeks about the CPU situation. Most of my confusion probably comes from the i5 8400 shortage. I checked some tests and it seems to me that:
- i5 8400 has ~10% advantage over the Ryzen 1600x in FPS (gaming ofc)
- 65W vs 95W -> more power headroom for the other parts, great because of the somewhat limited 450W PU
- 65W vs 95W -> easier to keep it cool, great for the slim case
- Ryzen is better when heavy multithreading is needed -> but for games that's usually not the case
- 8400 includes a GPU -> for games that probably does not really matter, but still it makes it more versatile and flexible

So in the end I would say 8400 is better for this build if I don't plan to do any kind of heavy multithreading (like rendering). One could argue about the price, but Ryzen does not have a cooler while 8400 has a stock cooler and after some research I found that it's probably enough for gaming.

In Hungary currently:
AMD Ryzen 5 1600X + ASRock AB350 Gaming-ITX/ac + Noctua NH-L9a-AM4  = ~430 USD in local currency, which is exactly the price point for i5 8400 preorder + Z370 mATX preorder (should be arriving in 2 weeks). And i5-8400 currently has a huge premium on it because of the shortage and Z370 is an overkill for this build - and still if both configs would be both available right now then 8400 + Z370 would be the better choice because of its performance for the same price.

But I think about canceling my preorder and see what happens in the next few weeks, because I would say that either the suggested retail price won't be happening for 8400 anytime soon or AMD has to adjust its prices as well, and also the non-Z boards should be coming in January. Every way I look at it the suggested $182.00 - $187.00 for i5-8400 currently seems too good to be true at the moment, but if that will be the price when the shortage will be solved (which Intel promised by mid-dec, so it's 2 weeks away) then I think it's clearly the winner in my book for that price - actually even with a Z370. So I expect the prices to go lower significantly in the next 2 weeks. I know that it's a waiting game that never ends because a newer and better stuff is always coming but now I got totally excited about 8400 and it's realtively low suggested price, so I give it 2-3 weeks to see what's happening and maybe I can still grab one before xmas :)

Also it was quite interesting that in DX12 games Ryzen seemed to perform quite better than 8400. I don't know what it means for the future, but it's exciting as hell for sure :)

Hey Pali,

Have you seen that price drop that you have mentioned around central europe?
I am still seeing the 8400 at a ~220 eur range. But maybe I am not looking at the right places.

(still no B montherboards, I hope at least they will make the Z ones cheaper because they have large stocks)

Ari Altman

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Re: TBG's $1,200 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #148 on: January 02, 2018, 07:53:22 AM »
Just FYI sbi85, palbarta, and other readers - as of January 2, 2018, the Core i5-8400 is finally available in the U.S., specifically from B&H Photo Video for $210. Even if you're in Europe, you may want to check them out, as they offer very good international shipping rates.

bensrichards

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Re: TBG's $1,200 Slim Gaming Mini-ITX Build
« Reply #149 on: April 13, 2018, 11:39:07 AM »
Hi Ari,

Would you mind taking a look at a part list and answering a few questions for me?  If you can make some affiliate links for the parts, I'd like to use them to support the site (though for budget reasons I'll probably acquire parts in stages).

Here's the parts list I'm considering:

Case: Silverstone FTZ01S (might already have a link for this from another forum post)
MOBO: ASUS mini-ITX Z370
CPU: Intel 8600K (is there an AMD alternative I could use here?)
Cooler: Noctua NH-L12S OR be quiet! Shadow Rock LP
RAM: Corsair LPX 16GB 3000 or 3200 (whichever is cheaper)
GPU: ??? (please help, more info below)
SSD: Samsung 960 EVO 500GB
PSU: ??? (again, please help)
Optical Drive: Blu Ray/DVD player

I'd like to use this machine to play games in my living room on a 1080p tv.  I'd also like to be able to watch BDs and DVDs without being stuck with the region restrictions that are baked into my current BD player.

Can you give me some advice on the NH-L12S vs the Shadow Rock LP?

As for GPUs, given that I'm limited by my display to 1080p at 60Hz, do I stand to gain anything by going beyond a GTX 1060 6GB card?  Second, is a blower style card preferable for a small case like this one?

Finally, I hear great things about both Corsair and Silverstone's fully modular SFX PSUs.  How should I pick between the two companies?

Thanks in advance for all your help. The little STX machine I built from your guide is still going strong, and I've been wanting to do another build for living room gaming ever since.  You got me hooked!
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 12:39:21 PM by Ari Altman »