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Messages - Ari Altman

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I ordered the u12s for the am4.  Well it certainly looks extremely close but 2mm is 2mm so I'll take it.  I get matching certain parts but it's an atx tower; I don't understand why you'd make a cooler sized that close to a majority of case widths.  It certainly is nice quality so I'm happy it should fit.

160mm of clearance is quite standard in the industry. Very few mid-sized cases offer more, and the cooler makers know this, so every cooler that uses a 120mm fan is under 160mm tall. It will work out fine for you, don't worry!

The High-End Gaming Mini-ITX Builds / Re: ULTRA-EXTREME MINI-ITX PC
« on: January 22, 2019, 11:46:35 AM »
I shut it down and unplugged everything. This morning when I used the motherboard hdmi it booted to windows correctly.
I shut it down changed to the RTX hdmi, no monitor.
I shut it down changed to motherboard hdmi and it booted to windows.
So... yes you are correct, the issue is with the RTX.
I have removed and reset the RTX at least 10x to check that the power cables are set and that the riser slot has locked.
I currently have it attached to the motherboard hdmi. I've just tried the display port restarted and it is ok.
Any other ideas to get the RTX recognized?

Another thing you can check is whether the card is getting any power. Do you see either the fans spinning or the lights turning on at any point during the boot process? If so, it's more likely that this is a data connection issue than a power connection issue, and the cause could be either a failure at the motherboard slot or a failure of the case's riser card.

Do you happen to have another video card you can test with, even a very old one? This would help rule out a defect in the RTX 2080.

To test whether its the riser card that's at fault, you could remove the motherboard from the case, plug the video card into it directly, and power on the system with the motherboard sitting on a non-conductive material (like a cardboard box). This of course would be a lot of work, but it would be worth trying before returning any products.

In the meantime, I'm going to check with my contact at SilverStone to see if he's ever seen failures of SilverStone's riser card that would cause this situation.

I think I may run into an issue with the Noctua cooler and that view 32 case.  Iím still waiting on the MB but judging from where the standoffs are I donít think Iíll be able to close the side with it installed.

The Thermaltake View 32 case has 160mm of clearance for a tower air cooler. The Noctua NH-U12S is 158mm tall and will fit fine. If you ordered the Noctua NH-U14S, then I agree it will not fit, as it's 165mm tall. This doesn't have anything to do with the standoffs, just the width of the case.

I don't recall which cooler your ordered, but this is one reason that mixing and matching components from different builds doesn't always work!

Hi Peeps another FYI and question.

When installing the radiator for the MSI RTX 2080 SEA Hawk It will not go in as expected. The upper radiator is in the way. Only way would be to have hoses coming out the end closest to the front. I did not want the hoses orientated like this. Much cleaner with hose to the rear. So I had to clock the MSI RTX 2080 SEA Hawk to 3 o clock to get it to fit. Also the GIGABYTE Z390 AORUS Ultra only has 1 slot for USB 3.1 on header. Each slot
connects 2 USB 3.1 slots. So my question is how to connect 3,4 USB 3.1 on header? After searching I came up with this SilverStone Technology USB 3.1 Gen2 PCIe Card with Internal 19pin Connector Plus Pericom ReDriver ECU04-E(Amazon). I think this is solution, thoughts?
I tell you I am tempted to start my own Case company to solve these minor headaches. Anyone got some start up cash? :P
Thanks for your thoughts in advance.

Hey again, Gruetoo!

I've actually thought about getting into the case business too, but it's pretty tough. Most of the startup case companies are actually focusing on ultra-premium small form factor cases, likely for three reasons: materials cost, shipping cost, and perhaps most importantly, the ability to sell small cases to enthusiasts at very high margins. Successfully bringing to market big cases like the one you're using would be pretty tough.

With that said, thanks for your feedback on the build. You mention the USB header issue, but the H500M case, being a modern high-end cases, has a single USB 3.1 Type-C port and four USB 3.1 Type-A ports. The Gigabyte Z390 AORUS Ultra has a header for the single Type-C port and a header for just two USB 3.1 Type-A ports, which is honestly a terrible omission on Gigabyte's part. I had not realized this, given that all the lower-end Gigabyte boards I've tested lately have two USB 3.1 Type-A headers. I think the issue is that Intel's chipset has limited data lanes, and to support the new Type-C port appearing on many high-end cases, motherboard manufacturers are dropping one of the Type-A headers. The Cooler Master H500M is among the only cases on the market that it has a Type-C port plus four USB 3.0 Type-A ports. That's more of a feature than a bug, but Cooler Master is ahead of motherboard manufacturers here.

SilverStone markets a number of great drop-in solutions to provide additional USB 3.0 headers, but if you're going to get any of them, you might as well get the best model, the ECU05, which adds three rear USB ports, including a Type-C port. The price difference is pretty minimal versus the lower-end models without the rear ports.

Note that a less expensive option is to convert two of the USB 3.0 ports in the front of the case to USB 3.0 using SilverStone's simple $8 adapter cable. It will limit the speed of two ports dramatically, but this is of no consequence for devices like headphones and mice, so it might be an option for you.

In terms of the cooler issues, it looks as if the H500M is just a bit too small to support both a 360mm and a 120mm liquid radiator in an ideal orientation, but that's admittedly a pretty high-spec build, and it would typically require more of a super-tower for a perfect setup.

The High-End Gaming Mini-ITX Builds / Re: ULTRA-EXTREME MINI-ITX PC
« on: January 21, 2019, 07:42:17 PM »
In your original post, it sounded like you were in windows, but now you have no image in your display at all? It seems things are actually a bit different, and my bet is because you had the monitor connected to the motherboard HDMI output the first time, and now you're connected to the video card, which appears to still be malfunctioning. Let's get you back into Windows 10 by connecting the monitor to the motherboard.

I'm something if there is an issue with the way you connected the PCIe riser slot that allows the video card to the motherboard. Remove the video card entirely from the system so you can ensure that the riser is properly inserted and affixed with screws.

The High-End Gaming Mini-ITX Builds / Re: ULTRA-EXTREME MINI-ITX PC
« on: January 21, 2019, 01:12:21 PM »
So I opened it up and took off the 8pin power to the mother board video 8 pin.
The RXT2080 8/6pin is attached to 8pin power

Now I don't have any monitor  at all. When I had power to the motherboard, I could use the monitor but couldn't use the RXT.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough in the steps. You don't want to remove power from the motherboard, you want to remove your HDMI cable from the motherboard's rear port, and attach the HDMI cable to the video card's output.

You must at all times maintain all power supply connections to the motherboard (there are two) and the video card (again, there are two).

The High-End Gaming Mini-ITX Builds / Re: ULTRA-EXTREME MINI-ITX PC
« on: January 21, 2019, 11:09:57 AM »
Here is the connections;
The cable  attached to the RTX2080 has an 8 pin and a 6 pin on one end and an 8 pin on the other end. I have plugged the end with both 8 pin & 6 pin into the RTX2080 and the other end (8 pin) into the power supply.
Does this need a separate 6 pin to a 6 pin?

It sounds like you now have this correct. You did need the 6-pin connector attached to the video card, and not having it would have prevented it from powering up. If you are running off the motherboard video, you will not be able to install the Nvidia drivers, so that was your issue. Once your RTx 2080 is properly powered up, you'll be able to install the drivers. You do not need a separate cable for the 6-pin, you just need both "branches" (8-pin and 6-pin) that come off of the single cable from the power supply plugged into the video card.

The High-End Gaming Mini-ITX Builds / Re: ULTRA-EXTREME MINI-ITX PC
« on: January 21, 2019, 10:22:09 AM »
Welcome to the Forum, crystalsingingbowls!

I can suggest a few tips to get your RTX 2080 recognized. First, it's clear you've loaded up Windows and the system is running, which is a very good sign. Good work getting this far!

The first thing to check is to type "display" into the Windows search bar, and you'll see an option pop up called "change display settings". Click on that, then scroll down to find an option called "Advanced display settings." In small print, you'll see what "Display 1" is connected to. It will either say Intel UHD Graphics or GeForce RTX 2080.

Now, if the RTX 2080 isn't listed, here are the things to troubleshoot: is your monitor cable connected to the back of your video card, or is it connected to the back of the motherboard? Both have ports that can be used for video output, but you'll need your monitor connected to the video card's outputs to make it run off the video card.

Second question: did you connect the power cables to the RTX 2080? It requires both an 8-pin connector and a 6-pin connector to be properly powered up.

If the RTX 2080 is listed, but you aren't able to install drivers (as you stated), make sure you downloaded the version for Windows 10 64-bit. Also make extra sure that you have the 64-bit version of Windows 10 installed. You can do this by typing "System" into the Windows search bar and selecting the System control panel. Check that 64-bit is listed under the System Type.

Report back on what you find - there will definitely be a solution, so we just have to pinpoint the problem!

Update: I installed the MSI board and everything worked. I had some rough patches with the cabling and getting the EVGA 2080 card into the case. I don't think I'll be doing a Mini-ITX build in the future! I snapped off the clip at the back of the video card slot removing the card, but it all works anyway. Ouch. I must say though, the build is as quite as my iMac, and that is saying something.

Over the last few days I've been installing software and getting the machine up and running!

Thank you so much. This was a very thrilling project.

So good to hear you got the system running. Hopefully this build will last you a while, and by the time you need to upgrade, you'll have forgotten all about the trouble you had and you'll go with another small form factor system!


Your temps are very good, no worries. FYI, you have 13mm between the heatsink and side panel. Not enough to use any fan. The slimmest fans are 15mm thick.

EDIT: I take that back - you can get a 12mm thick fan, and there's only one to consider: the Scythe Slipstream. Mount that as an exhaust (not intake) on the side panel, and you'll be good to go!

I picked up the Scythe Slipstream and I'm running significantly cooler now. I really hope the market grows for these 120mx12mm fans, it would be nice to see some alternatives to the Scythe, but so far it's quiet and kicking butt. I'm loving this build. Thanks for the recommendations!

That's great news, thanks for reporting back. Next month, the Buyer's Guide will be updated to recommend this configuration. I think enthusiasts will really appreciate it!

By the way, Scythe is a very reputable manufacturer, and at one point in the mid-2000s it made the best fans in the industry (I still have some running in a few machines). The Slipstream is a good fan, but it uses sleeve bearings, which aren't as smooth as fluid bearings. It's possible that there aren't fluid bearings available with the dimensions needed to fit in the 12mm profile, so it may continue to be the best option for the foreseeable future.

Hello! After weeks of shipping and finding the right parts on Malta, I have now all parts at hand except the Mobo. A local store just got their first Mini-ITX in stock which would work with my CPU, and itīs the MSI Z370-I Gaming Pro Carbon AC. I have heard that some Z370 boards are incompatible with this build because of their design; would this one work? Thanks in advance!

That will work fine.

Sup Peeps,
Just an FYI. Tonight I was able to install the Thermaltake Floe Triple Riing RGB 360 in the Cooler Master Case H500M. In fact I had to install it twice. It has a very tight fit. There looks like a ton of room but there isn't. Then I noticed the MB 8 pin power is in the upper left corner with shielding all around. No way to install power lead. So I removed the cooler to install power dongle. This case is a huge beast. A lot of space for the future upgrades. If a person wanted to plumb cooling there is room to spare.

Great feedback, thanks for sharing that tip on the CPU power cable. That's an issue with a lot of cases, and a common pitfall when mounting a liquid cooler.

General Discussion / Re: CES 2019
« on: January 19, 2019, 09:37:18 PM »
Any news on new SSD's/motherboards/etc from CES that will find their way into your future builds?

In terms of SSDs, the only news came from Seagate, an unlikely place. In fact I walked right by their booth after looking at their display and thinking the SSDs were the same rebranded low end stuff they've done in the past. Turns out it had some high end PCIe specs. We'll have to see how it works before incorporating them into the guides, but 2019 is definitely the year we'll see SATA take a back seat to PCIe in the mainstream market.

One piece of news on motherboards:  AMD is already ramping up production of 500-series chipsets for Zen 2, meaning a lot of current AMD boards are becoming scarce. Not a big deal for gamers, but it does affect TBG's basic builds. And of course Zen 2 could seriously shake up the high end market when it hits this summer. We'll see.

I'd suggest the Silverstone RVZ02. The advantage is being able to fit your graphics card. You'll still need a new power supply (I suggest the Corsair SF450), which will be true for any ITX case. Luckily your RAM will fit, and your 6700K should have included a standard Intel cooler in the box. Hopefully you still have it. So all you'll need are the case, psu, and motherboard.

That case looks very nice and only marginally larger! Sadly the 6700k didn't come with a cooler, so I'd need to buy Ola new one. Would a cheap one like the Hyper 212 fit? And would a 450 W psu be enough?

Ok, no problem, you'll just need to budget for a new slimline cooler. I suggest the Silverstone AR06. The 450W psu is plenty. Your components won't draw more than about 300W at full load. Remember, this is not a case for extreme overclocking, so extra power headroom just isn't necessary.

I recently followed this build with the only change being a 1 TB MX500 rather than 500 GB (a trivial change). I very much appreciate the guide and the work you do updating and maintaining the info.

A few things I noted in case anyone else is using the ~Jan 2019 part list. Some of these are in the step-by-step guide, but basically I thought it may be helpful to see where I had cause to pause, so that you don't run into the same mistakes:

1. The case has an existing bracket for the power supply that must be removed or else the CPU cooler and new power supply can't fit. It's very simple to remove (just two screws) and the bracket for the new power supply supports it just fine.

2. Make sure to plug in the HD Audio prior to mounting the CPU cooler. The rest of the cables for the front of the case (USB, power button, etc) can be plugged in afterwards (though it is harder) but the HD Audio gets totally covered and there is no way to plug it in after the fact.

3. The 2019 part list uses the ASRock Z390m ITX mobo and the SilverStone NT06-Pro-V2 CPU cooler. In my hands, this required the pipes of the CPU cooler to point parallel to the RAM, i.e. towards the right side of the case as you look at it from the front. Otherwise, the fins will prevent putting the case back together because the fins extend out the right side a little bit. In the step-by-step guide (which is extremely helpful, don't get me wrong), the parts are different enough that the cooler is oriented with the pipes going back. This won't work with the 2019 parts.

4. My CPU cooler came bent such that the top fins of the heat sink were angled sharply down and hit the RAM. It is quite easy to gently bend the pipes such that the base of the cooler and the heat fins are parallel again. Just go very slowly and spread out the force. The fins can be pretty sharp, so be mindful of that! Once I did this, everything fit just fine, no need to send back the CPU cooler, it will work just fine once bent back.

5. It's really important to mount the fans to blow in the correct direction. I had trouble knowing which way the CPU cooler fan would blow, so I plugged it in to a different computer to see. In short, the fan has one side where you can see the wires running along the frame, and another side where you just see the plastic bracket. The side with the visible wires should sit flush against the fins.

6. It's possible to mount the PSU either fan up for fan down. The guide very clearly says to mount it so that the fan is down. That way the CPU Cooler blows into the PSU, which can then blow out (and air can vent through the holes right below the PSU). I didn't realize the PSU could fit the mount in either direction and accidentally mounted it fan up at first.

7. The manual for the CPU Cooler doesn't totally match what you get (I think it's a v2 versus original model problem). The plastic washer discs aren't shown anywhere, but these are used to add some friction to the bolts so that they don't just fall out of the back mounting plate. If you watch the only existing youtube video on this cooler, the back mounting plate has a plastic bit permanently attached, but this isn't there anymore. Basically the black plastic washer discs go between the mobo and the mounting plate, acting as spacers. Without them, the bolts will just wobble and fall out, making it extremely difficult to thread the mounting plate and bolts through the mobo. It seems super obvious, but I left them out the first time because they didn't seem to fit over the bolts. Just give a bit more force and they'll slide on. Also, I forgot to add the rubber noise dampers between the fans and the fins at first. It's easy to get caught up mounting the fan and forget this part.

Note: There are gaps between fins such that you can tighten down the CPU cooler even with the fan mounted. You can just spin the fan blades a bit out the way if needed. I didn't realize this and mounted the fan once everything else was in place, and it was a total pain (then I had to do it again because I mounted the fan backwards, oops!)

Overall, the part list is perfect, everything fits and works super well. The guide is quite useful and honestly if you do this more than me or just are better at it, the things I listed above may be totally obvious anyway and not a problem at all. Just wanted to write this partially to say thanks for the great build and to help anyone a bit more if they happen to get stuck on the same things.

Welcome to the Forum, timcook! Awesome feedback!

The issue with the cooler and case is one that comes up depending on the motherboard used, as a CPU socket shifted only a few millimeters can indeed cause the cooler to hit the case panel. Asrock tends to mount the CPU higher, so this is what you're experiencing. The guide was recently switched from a Gigabyte board for cost savings, but this is an issue that may favor switching back next month. I appreciate you sharing your experience in such a positive way and finding a solution. TBG can only test a limited number of configurations, and in SFF builds, every little change can have a big impact. Also good to know about the cooler's mounting system. This may have changed recently.

One tip in terms of fan orientation: the fan frame is always on the exhaust side, while the spinning hub is on the intake side.

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