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The PC Builder's Guides - Pricepoint-Specific => The Premium/Extreme Gaming PC Builds => Topic started by: TekHed on February 17, 2017, 09:54:49 PM

Title: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 17, 2017, 09:54:49 PM
Hello all, first time poster.

I've been out of PC gaming for...a long time, and I finally have the means to build a monster rig, and have some questions and could use some advice. For starters, is it possible to build this dream machine into a small form factor? I saw the SFF ITX gaming rig for $2k, but I definitely want two Titan X in SLI to play 4k at 60 fps in HDR on a 65" OLED tv.

Second question...how does the dream machine compare to the $3,500 ultimate gaming build if I just swapped out the 1080s in that build for the Titan X's?

Last question...at the moment I am holding out for the 2017 tvs to come out, and also for Nvidia to finally announce the long rumored 1080 ti...but I keep hearing that the ti will still be less powerful than the Titan x...and that something even better than either of those will release before the end of this year. Would it be better to hold out for the ti, or just get the Titan Xs, all things considered?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on February 18, 2017, 01:57:55 AM
Welcome to the Forum, TekHed!

As to your questions, here are some answers:

1) Small form factor with dual Titans: no, can't do it. You can do a single Titan, but dual cards won't work in ITX systems, and even in a micro ATX case, they'd physically fit but would run terribly. The top card would be in a constant state of overheating. Note that for 4K 60fps, a single Titan X Pascal is actually enough in most circumstances, so keep that in mind when determining what you actually need in your PC. TBG will soon publish a step by step assembly guide and performance evaluation of an SFF system using a Titan X Pascal, so keep an eye out for that.

2) $3500 vs Supreme Dream Machine: there are a lot of differences between these two systems besides graphics cards, but if all you want to do is maximize gaming performance, yes, you can just drop dual Titans in.  They'll work fine in that build. In very few circumstances would the Supreme Dream Machine be significantly faster for gaming.

3) 1080 Ti: this GPU is coming next month, and it will definitely be slower than the Titan X. The only advantage it will have is a lower price and the option for custom coolers. They will be quieter, and in the right conditions, they could allow a 1080 Ti to outperform a Titan due to reduced throttling. This will be when heavily overclocked with high ambient temperatures and extreme case airflow.

Hope that all helps you in your decision making!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 19, 2017, 10:56:06 AM
Thank you!

More questions...

1. Regarding case, is the dream machine case significantly better than the $3,500 build case? More optimized for gaming (my primary use for the new PC, aside from the basic browsing, word processing, and media watching), or is it just an aesthetics consideration? What makes the dream machine case the dream case?

2. In what circumstances would those be? Do the extra cores in the dream machine really help?

3. With either of these machines, are they going to be super loud, or are they able to be made quiet? I do want to go the liquid cooled route.

Mainly, I was thinking 2 Titan Xs, to be somewhat future proofed for a couple years, and to know that I can do everything at ultra without worry in 4k/HDR. As price is no obstacle, is there any reaso *not* to get two Titan Xs?

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on February 19, 2017, 10:30:33 PM
Thank you!

More questions...

1. Regarding case, is the dream machine case significantly better than the $3,500 build case? More optimized for gaming (my primary use for the new PC, aside from the basic browsing, word processing, and media watching), or is it just an aesthetics consideration? What makes the dream machine case the dream case?

2. In what circumstances would those be? Do the extra cores in the dream machine really help?

3. With either of these machines, are they going to be super loud, or are they able to be made quiet? I do want to go the liquid cooled route.

Mainly, I was thinking 2 Titan Xs, to be somewhat future proofed for a couple years, and to know that I can do everything at ultra without worry in 4k/HDR. As price is no obstacle, is there any reaso *not* to get two Titan Xs?

Thanks again!

1. the Dream Machine case isn't necessarily going to provide higher performance, but it offers much better aesthetics and materials. It's a beautiful case, rather than just a functional case.

2. there are a few select games where the 10-core Core i7-6950X (http://amzn.to/2kD4sYR) will allow it to perform faster than a six-core Core i7-6850K (http://amzn.to/2mdq8Hi). But honestly, if you're not cost constrained but your only purpose is gaming, I'd suggest you split the difference and get the Core i7-6900K (http://amzn.to/2lZANt5). I don't believe any games today actually use more than 8 cores, which is what the 6900K offers.

3. These systems will be relatively quiet. The cooler on the Supreme Dream Machine is a semi-custom model, and will run more quietly than the Corsair Hydro cooler in the $3,500 build.

There is no reason not to get dual Titan X cards today other than cost, although in a month or so, we'll finally have the GTX 1080 Ti, which may offer nearly the same performance for a lot less money, plus quieter coolers.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 01, 2017, 08:32:37 AM
Well now...looks like the 1080ti outdoes the Titan X...can we expect revisions for all the builds? TIs in SLI sounds so sweet now, and for $1000 less...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on March 01, 2017, 09:24:09 AM
Well now...looks like the 1080ti outdoes the Titan X...can we expect revisions for all the builds? TIs in SLI sounds so sweet now, and for $1000 less...

Yes, there are going to be some major changes to TBG's high-end builds for March. The AMD Ryzen CPU has already been added to a few builds, and will likely be added to a few more, and the 1080 Ti will replace the 1080 in a number of builds. I think the Supreme Dream Machine's going to stick with the Titan, because in the end, the Titan is actually a faster card once overclocked, and it has more VRAM. But in everything below the Dream Machine, yes, it's going to be the 1080 Ti where budget allows, or perhaps the 1080 where a 1070 used to be recommended.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 01, 2017, 09:35:40 AM
I was reading that that the ti is faster before overclocking it, and that even though it has a gb less vram, it can access it faster...is that not true?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on March 01, 2017, 10:46:14 AM
I was reading that that the ti is faster before overclocking it, and that even though it has a gb less vram, it can access it faster...is that not true?

Here are the key specs for the 1080 Ti vs. the Titan:

CUDA Cores: 3584 for both
ROPs: 88 vs 96
Boost Clock: 1582MHz vs 1531MHz
VRAM: 11GB vs 12GB
VRAM Frequency: 11Gbps vs 10GBps
Memory Bus: 352bit vs 384bit
Memory Bandwidth: 484GB/s vs 480GB/s

So what does this all add up to? There are just two specs that differ significantly: the 1080 Ti is down 8 ROPs and is up 50MHz in clock speed. But this is why the claim that it's faster than the Titan is mumbo jumbo. Those ROPs, which perform the backend rendering (or rasterization into actual images for display) cannot be made up for with clock speed alone. Furthermore, all Pascal GPUs will hit the same overclocked core speed on average: around 2050Mhz. So the 50MHz boost that Nvidia gave the 1080 Ti is completely arbitrary. It could have picked anything from 1500MHz to 1650Mhz. Note that memory bandwidth is the same, despite the different frequency and bus, and both can be overclocked similarly.

All told, when overclocked to the limit, the Titan will be about 3-5% faster and have 1GB of extra VRAM. Worth a $500 premium? Only if you want the best!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 01, 2017, 11:05:17 AM
Hm. Thanks!

Of course this makes me think the Titans are going to get leapfrogged later this year...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 01, 2017, 11:32:29 AM
So this is baloney?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-gtx-1080-ti-finally-revealed
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on March 01, 2017, 11:42:55 AM
So this is baloney?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-gtx-1080-ti-finally-revealed

Yes. If you're an outlet that just quotes Nvidia press releases and reference specs, sure, it's technically true, but people don't buy $1,200 cards and run them at stock speeds. The Titan X Pascal has massive overclocking potential, and with the 1080 Ti, Nvidia has simply tapped used up some of that potential to make it a bit faster out of the box. But for enthusiasts, that kind of hocus pocus, which makes for nice press releases, can be ignored. The Titan is still a better card, but the 1080 Ti is clearly the better deal.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 01, 2017, 11:54:22 AM
You are the man!

I can afford 2 Titans, but might go with 2 TIs, because that still seems plenty...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 01, 2017, 07:25:37 PM
What are the cons of SLI...I keep hearing in other forums that it can be sketchy, and that some games don't support it. Is there any significant reason to not run two gpus?

Thanks again for such a great site!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on March 01, 2017, 08:28:24 PM
What are the cons of SLI...I keep hearing in other forums that it can be sketchy, and that some games don't support it. Is there any significant reason to not run two gpus?

Thanks again for such a great site!

It's true that some games don't support SLI, but that does not mean SLI doesn't work and isn't worth using. For a thorough answer to your question, covering both pros and cons, check out TBG's 4K Gaming Showdown (http://techbuyersguru.com/4k-gaming-showdown-geforce-gtx-1070-sli-vs-1080-sli-vs-titan-x-pascal).
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 01, 2017, 09:06:27 PM
Forgive me for asking so many noob questions...I have been looking forward to playing Doom on PC...if I have an SLI setup, is it possible to just turn off one of the cards in the settings, or would I have to physically remove one of them before playing?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on March 01, 2017, 09:49:47 PM
Forgive me for asking so many noob questions...I have been looking forward to playing Doom on PC...if I have an SLI setup, is it possible to just turn off one of the cards in the settings, or would I have to physically remove one of them before playing?

That's a good question, and as you probably saw in the article, DOOM is one of those games that does not work well with SLI. Luckily, you don't have to do anything physically to the PC to make DOOM run - in fact, it runs fine with an SLI system, it just isn't much faster than it would be with a single card. That being said, if you want to  avoid the excess power use, you can disable SLI in the Nvidia control panel prior to playing DOOM, and it will just run on one card.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 06, 2017, 01:15:09 PM
I noticed the Ti didn't make it into your most recent updates...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on March 06, 2017, 02:21:06 PM
I noticed the Ti didn't make it into your most recent updates...

That's because it doesn't exist yet.  ;)

Launching on Friday the 10th, expect to see an update then!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 06, 2017, 02:29:08 PM
Okie dokie.  :)

Rumor has it the LG B7 tv is going to roll out in April, so will be building my rig sometime in May or June. Most likely somewhere in between the 5k and 9k systems. If someone were to go all in on the Dream Machine though...how many years do you think it would be more or less "future proofed" before games start catching up and it can no longer run them at the most extreme settings...2 years? 3? 5?



Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on March 06, 2017, 04:30:50 PM
Okie dokie.  :)

Rumor has it the LG B7 tv is going to roll out in April, so will be building my rig sometime in May or June. Most likely somewhere in between the 5k and 9k systems. If someone were to go all in on the Dream Machine though...how many years do you think it would be more or less "future proofed" before games start catching up and it can no longer run them at the most extreme settings...2 years? 3? 5?

Funny, I've also decided to get an LG B7, and I've been checking the LG website every few days to see if it's finally been released. I hadn't seen the April date you mentioned, but it seems reasonable given the C7 isn't even available yet, and the B7 will steal sales from the C7 once it arrives.

As for how long the Supreme Dream Machine or $5000 build will last, there's one overarching consideration: VRAM. This is what tanks systems before anything else, and the Titan X Pascal has the most at 12GB. But when the 1080 Ti arrives with 11GB (and dual 1080 Ti cards become the recommended solution for the $5,000 build), it will come close to having the same longevity.

For example, if you'd purchased two Titan X 12GB cards released in March of 2015, you'd still be gaming quite nicely today, as they are every bit the equal of the GTX 1070 8GB, and will likely outlive the 1070 due to having more VRAM (equipping the Titan with 12GB was truly absurd in 2015!). I'd estimate that dual Titan X 2015 cards will still be more than capable in the latest games through 2018, meaning they'd have a three year lifespan, and the same will be true of the latest Titan or the 1080 Ti. Running two of these cards will provide ample performance through at least 2019, if not 2020.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 06, 2017, 05:17:41 PM
Very noice.

If you could speculate on what will supercede the Titan X, what specs would you predict?

Also out of curiosity, what game(s) are you currently playing?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on March 06, 2017, 05:55:21 PM
Very noice.

If you could speculate on what will supercede the Titan X, what specs would you predict?

Also out of curiosity, what game(s) are you currently playing?

In late-2017 or early-2018, we should see a $400 card with performance equal to the 1080 Ti/TXP, and a $700 card with performance 25% higher. In spring of 2018, I predict we'll see a $1,200 card with performance 50% higher. Specs aren't as important as what they do for games!

As for what games I'm playing, I don't have much time for gaming, and most of my exposure to games is now through benchmarking. But I've played about 3 hours of BF1 in the past few days (ironically for purposes of a gaming keyboard review TBG will soon be publishing), and I also tested out the For Honor beta a week ago. I'm hoping to jump back into Rise of the Tomb Raider using TBG's Ultimate ITX PC (http://techbuyersguru.com/pc-builders-guides-assembling-ultimate-mini-pc-2017) once I have the LG B7. That game plays best on the big screen, and I think the picture quality of the LG will help it look a lot better than it does on my current Samsung 4K HDTV.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 06, 2017, 06:10:42 PM
Hm. Well seeing as the current 1080 ti already claims to be 35% faster than a Titan X, a 25% increase doesn't sound too big a jump. They will probably want to milk the TI and Titan X for a whole 'nother year if they can. This is part of why I'm considering the dream machine build now, because paying $2500 every 2-3 years isn't a big deal once the other systems are in place.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on March 11, 2017, 09:11:23 AM
This build has now been updated to dual GTX 1080 Ti cards, which offers the same performance as the Titan X Pascal SLI for $1,000 less. Of course, the cards will be sold out for weeks, but Amazon is allowing certain models to be backordered (http://amzn.to/2mcAc2X).

I will have my first GTX 1080 Ti in by the end of next week, and will eventually pick up a second when custom coolers become available in April.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 11, 2017, 02:58:06 PM
Awesome! I didn't expect you to drop the Titan X based on what you were saying before. I'm still holding out for the LG B7 though, especially in light of recent reports that the B6 produces bad screen tearing in HDR mode. No point in building a 4k/HDR computer until I have the screen to display it on...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on March 11, 2017, 03:36:04 PM
Awesome! I didn't expect you to drop the Titan X based on what you were saying before. I'm still holding out for the LG B7 though, especially in light of recent reports that the B6 produces bad screen tearing in HDR mode. No point in building a 4k/HDR computer until I have the screen to display it on...

While the GTX 1080 Ti is not technically superior to the Titan X Pascal, the prices are different enough that it no longer makes sense to consider the Titan.

I believe I saw that report on the B6. It's probably an issue of refresh rate in HDR mode. That takes a lot of processing power. Hopefully LG has found a fix for this in the B7.

In what I consider to be a pretty bad sign, the pre-order price on the OLED55C7P (http://amzn.to/2nrbpZU) has gone up from $2,500 to $3,000. My guess is that LG had second thoughts about lowering the pricepoint on its OLED TVs when it has such a commanding lead and its competitors continue to release inferior models at $2,500. I now expect the B7 to come in at $2,500, rather than at a discount. Some had speculated that this would be the year a 55" OLED would drop well below that point, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 11, 2017, 03:40:46 PM
For 4k it makes more sense to get a 65" anyway. Holding out for that, guessing it will retail for $4k, appropriately enough...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on March 13, 2017, 02:15:06 PM
For 4k it makes more sense to get a 65" anyway. Holding out for that, guessing it will retail for $4k, appropriately enough...

Well, if it's any indication of where prices are going, LG has officially raised the MSRP on the OLED65C7P from the $4,500 it was announced at (https://www.cnet.com/products/lg-oled65c7p/preview/) to $5,000 on its website (http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-OLED65C7P-oled-4k-tv). I would therefore guess that although indications were that the OLED65B7P would have come in at $3,500, that is no longer true. $4,000 is a very good guess. The 55" model will likely come in at $2,500.

In the meantime, LG has dropped the MSRPs of the 55" and 65" C6P models to $2,000 and $3,000 (http://amzn.to/2n2wnS7), respectively. These are great prices for deal hunters, although the 2017 models will be superior.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 13, 2017, 06:36:34 PM
Apparently the screen tearing issue was fixed in the recent update. I think the extra 25% peak brightness is going to make enough of a difference for HDR gaming to be worth getting this year's model. Do you concur?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on March 13, 2017, 08:33:46 PM
Apparently the screen tearing issue was fixed in the recent update. I think the extra 25% peak brightness is going to make enough of a difference for HDR gaming to be worth getting this year's model. Do you concur?

I've been burned enough times with changes in home theater standards that I'll always get the newest model.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 15, 2017, 09:44:10 PM
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/lg-oled-tvs-2017-what-each-one-will-set-you-back (http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/lg-oled-tvs-2017-what-each-one-will-set-you-back)

Damn...according to this they raised all of their prices. Was $8,000 US for the W765 initially, now it's closer to 10k. This is saying the 65" B7 is going to be 5.5k.

Sony's new OLED models are going to be even more expensive. And here it seemed like with the competition that the prices would come down a bit. :(
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on March 15, 2017, 11:32:01 PM
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/lg-oled-tvs-2017-what-each-one-will-set-you-back (http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/lg-oled-tvs-2017-what-each-one-will-set-you-back)

Damn...according to this they raised all of their prices. Was $8,000 US for the W765 initially, now it's closer to 10k. This is saying the 65" B7 is going to be 5.5k.

Sony's new OLED models are going to be even more expensive. And here it seemed like with the competition that the prices would come down a bit. :(

Oh my goodness. Those prices are outrageous. Basically $1,000-$1,500 price increases form last year's MSRPs, and that's not even considering that 2016 models are heavily discounted below MSRP right now.

Also interesting that this article suggests B7 and C7 are the same price, and you just choose the style you want. I believe that in the past, the B7 was cheaper.

I'm really not sure what to say. I still feel pretty strongly that buying last year's home theater tech is not a great idea, but I really need to learn why LG believes this price increase is warranted....
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 16, 2017, 03:02:40 AM
The article may be in error. If you look at Amazon the C7 is listed at the price the article quotes in pounds but in dollars. It's possible the price in pounds and dollars will be the same, which means the 65B7 is going to be 4.5k. Should drop down to 4k on Amazon marketplace.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on March 18, 2017, 09:07:16 PM
The article may be in error. If you look at Amazon the C7 is listed at the price the article quotes in pounds but in dollars. It's possible the price in pounds and dollars will be the same, which means the 65B7 is going to be 4.5k. Should drop down to 4k on Amazon marketplace.

Best Buy has now listed the 65C7P and 65E7P (https://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=WAzU8cLhuCU&subid=&offerid=460242.1&type=10&tmpid=13127&RD_PARM1=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.bestbuy.com%252Fsite%252Fsearchpage.jsp%253Fcp%253D1%2526searchType%253Dsearch%2526st%253Dlg%252520oled%2526_dyncharset%253DUTF-8%2526id%253Dpcat17071%2526type%253Dpage%2526sc%253DGlobal%2526nrp%253D%2526sp%253D%2526qp%253Dtvscreensizerange_facet%25253DTV%252520Screen%252520Size%257E65%252522%252520-%25252069%252522%2526list%253Dn%2526af%253Dtrue%2526iht%253Dy%2526usc%253DAll%252520Categories%2526ks%253D960%2526keys%253Dkeys). The MSRP of the C7 series has increased in price a shocking $1,500 to $5,000, while the E7 has increased $2,000 to $6,000. I assume the B7 will follow suit, meaning the 65" model will have an MSRP of at least $4,500, but more likely it will simply match the C7's $5,000.

In other words, these are not great times to be buying an OLED TV unless you buy last year's model. The 65" curved C6P with 3D is looking more and more attractive. No 2017 models will ship with 3D.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 18, 2017, 09:44:20 PM
I couldn't care less about 3d, or curved. I think it's going to be $4,500 for the B7 next month, and my research does indicate that tge extra brightness and lower input lag are going to be worth it for my intended use of HDR gaming. Might even be discounted to $4,000 on Amazon. Will probably drop to $3,000 by black Friday but I don't think I want to wait that long to get my PS4 pro and PC to enjoy 4k, HDR gaming, so I'll likely eat the cost.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on March 28, 2017, 02:45:59 PM
Still waiting for the B7 to come out and get reviewed and compared to the other high end models this year.

In the meantime still saving up money and doing research...

What do you make of this thing called microstuttering in SLI that I've just been informed of? Is it a non issue in 2017? Apparently not every game even has support for SLI/Crossfire. Are there games that work with AMD crossfire only?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on March 28, 2017, 06:34:20 PM
Microstuttering is not a new issue. In fact, it's an old issue, and it really isn't relevant anymore, because it was solved several years ago.

And no, there are no games that work with Crossfire only. In fact, there are quite a few games that work with SLI only.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 06, 2017, 01:51:32 PM
Ugh. I'm so annoyed that I can't find ANY current info on the price and release date for the LG B7. You would think they would let people know when we can give them money! Seriously wtf!?!

In other news, what's your take on the newly announced Titan Xp...from what I can tell it's still only marginally better than the Ti, and again for $500 more... Who is this thing really aimed at?

Also, the dream machine build seems to have disappeared from the build comparison page...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 06, 2017, 04:14:43 PM
Oh, the Supreme Dream Machine was temporarily offline as it surpassed the $10,000 mark and messed with the code on which the Comparison Page is built. Never had we considered that a build could top that amount, and the page couldn't display it! I've just pegged the price at $10,000 for now, although it's slightly over that.

Anyway, the Titan Xp is what it is. Fastest ever, at a big premium. With the 1080 Ti around, it only makes sense for people who want the very best.

And I got tired of waiting on the B7 and even more tired of the constant price increases on it pre-launch. Got myself a nice 65" C6 at a huge discount, far less than the 55" B7 will go for.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 06, 2017, 04:34:29 PM
For my needs I want this year's model for the extra brightness will be noticeable with HDR gaming. I just don't understand why LG isn't publishing the damn release dates. I'd heard April last I checked, but here we are, and no damn news!!!

I highly doubt that the extra performance of the new XP is going to be even noticeable over a Ti. Maybe it will be a few frames per second faster, but I'm not sure my untrained eye could even tell the difference without some kind of benchmarking software. The Ti seems very super-proofed, especially with 2 of them.

I am running into one concern however... space! Looking at the dimensions of the cases you recommend for the higher end builds, and getting a tape measure out, these things are WAY bigger than I remembered. It's almost enough to make me reconsider a "mini" build with a single Titan in it...but it still seems like it takes 2 cards in SLI to reliably hit 4k at 60 fps.

Is there an in-between solution? What is the best, most compact "normal" case that you would recommend, that could fit 2 cards in it?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 06, 2017, 05:10:33 PM
Look at the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M case in the $1,750 build. It's the smallest that will take two Titans and a liquid CPU cooler. And I'm being very specific here.  Other cases in the same price range will not work. I've tested a bunch with SLI setups.

You do realize, by the way, that only a single game has been released with HDR support, right? It's Mass Effect Andromeda. Spending an extra $2000 for slightly higher brightness in one game isn't what I'd recommend. Sure, other games will be released with HDR support, but it's an absolutely tiny market, as not a single PC monitor yet supports it. HDR gaming is quite literally a niche of a niche. The only people who can use it are PC owners using $2500+ TVs released in the past two years as monitors.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 07, 2017, 10:23:44 AM
As always, thank you so very much for your response time. Your feedback is incredibly helpful in this planning process!

I'll go in reverse order again...

I have zero interest in playing ME: Andromeda. What you may be overlooking is the PS4 Pro I'm going to get. Off the top of my head, PS Exclusives that supposrt HDR include Horizon Zero Dawn, Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted 4, The upcoming Spiderman game from Insomniac, and very likely the upcoming God of War game and pretty much every PS4 exclusive from here on out. And yes of course in the future now that HDR is a thing more and more multiplats are going to be taking advantage of it. I want to be ready. :)

Hm...I checked out the case you recommended, and it's not bad. It's still not quite small enough to fit where I was hoping to tuck it under, which is a shelf about 15-16" off the floor. I thought maybe there are the more squat, square cases might be possible. Would it be bad to take that case but have it laying on its side, on the floor? Is that a huge no-no?

What would be the other tradeoffs in going with that smaller case, instead of one of the monster towers? Is it going to be much much harder to install everything in it? Is it going to make cooling more of an issue, or will liquid coolers and fans be able to compensate?

If I do go for the smaller case, will it fit everything in the dream build if I go that route? I'm still thinking about a higher end hybrid, like the dream machine but with TIs...the 10 core CPU, and 6 TB SSD setup just sounds awesome and super-future-proofed to me. I feel like even though I can technically afford the new Titan Xps, it really won't make a discernible difference in any games coming out in the next 3 or 4 years over the TIs, and as you've mentioned VRAM and CPU bottlenecks are the more important things to worry about.

On a personal note, I hope your site here keeps growing more successful. Have you considered starting a Youtube channel? I know there are others out there, but I feel like with your knowledge and brand cache you would do extremely well!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 07, 2017, 10:43:23 AM
Hmmm, a 16-inch height limit is pretty tough. There isn't a single ATX tower on the market that's this short, including cube-shaped models, which tend to just get fatter without getting much shorter. There are HTPC cases designed to sit horizontally, but they can't fit big liquid coolers. You can see one reader's take on this theme in the Gallery (http://techbuyersguru.com/chris-extreme-4k-gaming-htpc).

And yes, PS4 Pro changes the equation significantly! The PC and monitor industries tend to lag way behind consoles when it comes to TV standards for a few main reasons (market potential and licensing fees primarily).

I've actually considered a Youtube channel, as revenue streams for traditional websites are really getting constricited. Doing video production obviously takes some skill, as well as a studio-like setting, but I'm thinking about how to set all this up. Unfortunately, YouTube just announced that revenue will not be shared with youtubers who have under 10,000 views, which would take a while to get. YouTube's stated goal is to limit support for extremist content providers.

Anyway, thanks for the kind words and for supporting the site!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 07, 2017, 02:02:01 PM
Yeah one of my clients is a senior engineer/team leader at Youtube, and he's been having to deal with all of the recent fallout from a comparatively minuscule number of bad actors. Been quite the headache for him.

One thing you might consider, once you have a decent enough setup, is starting the channel, promoting it here on your site, and getting a patreon account. A lot of Youtubers these days are crowdfunding their content and you'd be surprised how quickly you can get a viable revenue stream with a large enough audience who believes in your content. It does take time to build, but could be well worth it for your brand...

That case in the gallery is definitely getting closer to what might work. My setup is indeed a home built media center I put together out of stained wood boards and painted cinder blocks. Space is definitely at a premium, and will be moreso when I upgrade to a 65" screen. Is it bad to lay normal towers on their side, as that could be an option? Alternatively, do you know of anyplace that makes custom cases to spec?

No matter what I end up doing, the computer is probably going to have to sit on the floor, and in these older houses it's a constant battle against dust. Alternately I'm considering getting a big tower, and placing it all the way behind my couch, which will necessitate running a bunch of cables along the walls to get around to the media center, receiver, and tv opposite...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 07, 2017, 06:11:13 PM
Yeah one of my clients is a senior engineer/team leader at Youtube, and he's been having to deal with all of the recent fallout from a comparatively minuscule number of bad actors. Been quite the headache for him.

One thing you might consider, once you have a decent enough setup, is starting the channel, promoting it here on your site, and getting a patreon account. A lot of Youtubers these days are crowdfunding their content and you'd be surprised how quickly you can get a viable revenue stream with a large enough audience who believes in your content. It does take time to build, but could be well worth it for your brand...

That case in the gallery is definitely getting closer to what might work. My setup is indeed a home built media center I put together out of stained wood boards and painted cinder blocks. Space is definitely at a premium, and will be moreso when I upgrade to a 65" screen. Is it bad to lay normal towers on their side, as that could be an option? Alternatively, do you know of anyplace that makes custom cases to spec?

No matter what I end up doing, the computer is probably going to have to sit on the floor, and in these older houses it's a constant battle against dust. Alternately I'm considering getting a big tower, and placing it all the way behind my couch, which will necessitate running a bunch of cables along the walls to get around to the media center, receiver, and tv opposite...

You know, one case that might work in your unique situation is the Corsair Carbide Air 540 (http://amzn.to/2nMMSyk). While it's a bit too tall for your application, set on its side it could work perfectly, as it's 13" wide (or 13" tall on its side). And its actual height isn't as high as most tower cases. You can certainly run full towers on their side, but they'll look funny and take up a ton of space horizontally. It has plenty of cooling and capacity for an ultra-high-end setup, and would make for quite an "elite" home theater setup!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 07, 2017, 08:33:19 PM
That...

That would actually be pretty sick! Have the window facing up. Hm. That's probably even a better solution than hiding it behind the couch.

Ok so now I have the case picked, I think the dream build subbed out with TIs is the way to go. Realistically the savings from not buying the XPs will be made up for with tax, and S&H. This case is much less expensive too. Mwahaha. I think aside from the TV coming out, the only other thing I'm waiting on is my curiosity about Vega. I figure the PS4 will keep me plenty busy until June or July when AMD finally shows us something.

The question then becomes: what to play first?

Shortlist:

Witcher 3
Dishonored 2
Titanfall 2
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (after replaying Human Revolution Director's Cut with mods)
Total War: Warhammer
Doom
Tomb Raider and Rise of the Tomb Raider
Quantum Break

Edit: Oh yeah and Middle Earth: Shadow of War. :)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 08, 2017, 08:46:48 AM
If you go ahead with this, please share photos! Note that I like this case in silver more than black as it looks classier, but for an HTPC setup, you'll probably want black to blend into the background.

As for games, it sounds like we have very similar taste. The Tomb Raider games are among my very favorite, with great graphics and storytelling. Also particularly good for playing with a gamepad on a big TV due to epic settings and third-person action. Doom is technically impressive, but I have to admit that it's a bit too old school for me, just lots of fast-paced demon killing. Witcher 3 is a modern classic and should be in every library. I loved DE:HR, but DE:MD doesn't have the same quality of story or environments despite cutting-edge graphics.

My next game will definitely be Titanfall 2. Sleeper hit of the year.  Should be fun with gamepad on TV due to hectic wall-running action.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 08, 2017, 11:52:56 AM
I know you have an article on this site, and plenty of how to youtube videos but it's going to be an experience for sure actually building it. It's been 20 years since I built a computer. Apparently there are lots of little nuances to get right. I've also never worked with liquid cooling and overclocking, and despite my name being Tekhed, that's a reference to a game, and not indicative of my technical skills. Most of the PC terms and jargon goes right over my head. I'd be lost without resources like this site.

I kind of like the silver case too, and the white and black one, but I think yeah all black because everything else is...

Human Revolution is in my top 5 all time favorite games, which made me sad when Mankind Divided came out to mediocre reviews...I'll still play it though. I played the original Wolfenstein 3D and Doom, so have to take that nostalgia trip. Just finished playing Wolfenstein: The New Order on my PS4.

I'm kind of scared to start Witcher 3, as I know once I do, that will probably be the only game I play for the next year or two. Just so damn huge, and I have strong completionist  tendencies... :(
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 08, 2017, 04:07:17 PM
There are a few guides on this site that you should check out:

(1) High-End Builder's Guide (2017) (http://techbuyersguru.com/pc-builders-guides-assembling-high-end-gaming-pc-2017) for help with all cabling and SSD installation
(2) Ultra-High-End Builder's Guide (2016) (http://techbuyersguru.com/pc-builders-guides-assembling-ultra-high-end-pc-2016) for help with CPU, liquid cooler, and GeForce SLI installation

I made an extra effort in the 2017 high-end guide to really cover a lot of details of component installation. The 2016 ultra-high-end guide assumes a bit more knowledge, but covers advanced topics like liquid cooling and SLI in detail, as well as the unique Intel socket 2011-v3, which works differently than the more common socket 1151.

If you're actually going to go with the Supreme Dream Machine, you'll probably want to pay close attention to the CPU cooler manual, as the semi-custom cooler is a bit more complicated than typical all-in-ones. If you want a more straight-forward experience without losing much performance, go with the Corsair H115i (http://amzn.to/2obwZTP).
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 08, 2017, 04:53:00 PM
I will probably want liquid cooled models of the 1080TIs...any idea when a 3rd party might release something like that?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 08, 2017, 05:06:52 PM
I will probably want liquid cooled models of the 1080TIs...any idea when a 3rd party might release something like that?

It will be a while. Custom air cooled cards haven't even shipped yet. My best guess is June for liquid cooled EVGA Hybrid, MSI Sea Hawk, and Gigabyte Waterforce models to arrive. These products haven't actually been announced, by the way.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 08, 2017, 05:21:07 PM
I can wait until June. :)

I suppose that gives me more time to figure out the two guides you linked. Even the more entry level one I still didn't understand many terms and how to utilize them. I get the basics of what the components are, but figuring out how they are all going to fit together in the case you helped me decide on is going to be an interesting challenge. Beyond the hardware part, getting the OS and software up and working, and all the terminology around overclocking and such just go over my head. Again, my computer science class was over 20 years ago, so I've become essentially tech illiterate.  :-[
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Cambie on April 10, 2017, 12:17:00 PM
Yeah one of my clients is a senior engineer/team leader at Youtube, and he's been having to deal with all of the recent fallout from a comparatively minuscule number of bad actors. Been quite the headache for him.

One thing you might consider, once you have a decent enough setup, is starting the channel, promoting it here on your site, and getting a patreon account. A lot of Youtubers these days are crowdfunding their content and you'd be surprised how quickly you can get a viable revenue stream with a large enough audience who believes in your content. It does take time to build, but could be well worth it for your brand...

That case in the gallery is definitely getting closer to what might work. My setup is indeed a home built media center I put together out of stained wood boards and painted cinder blocks. Space is definitely at a premium, and will be moreso when I upgrade to a 65" screen. Is it bad to lay normal towers on their side, as that could be an option? Alternatively, do you know of anyplace that makes custom cases to spec?

No matter what I end up doing, the computer is probably going to have to sit on the floor, and in these older houses it's a constant battle against dust. Alternately I'm considering getting a big tower, and placing it all the way behind my couch, which will necessitate running a bunch of cables along the walls to get around to the media center, receiver, and tv opposite...

You know, one case that might work in your unique situation is the Corsair Carbide Air 540 (http://amzn.to/2nMMSyk). While it's a bit too tall for your application, set on its side it could work perfectly, as it's 13" wide (or 13" tall on its side). And its actual height isn't as high as most tower cases. You can certainly run full towers on their side, but they'll look funny and take up a ton of space horizontally. It has plenty of cooling and capacity for an ultra-high-end setup, and would make for quite an "elite" home theater setup!

Hi, I use the Air 540 in Ari's $1250 quiet build.  FYI, I think there is a grate on the right side of the case for the PSU fan exhaust or intake.  Not sure how everything is oriented in your build, but if you put the case on its side with the glass sode up, it might potentially block this airflow?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 10, 2017, 12:31:01 PM
Hi, from what I can tell in the Amazon pictures the air intakes are in the front and top, with exhaust out the back. None of the pics show the right side though, but from the interior shot through the window on the left side I can't see any inlets...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 10, 2017, 12:37:19 PM
Yeah one of my clients is a senior engineer/team leader at Youtube, and he's been having to deal with all of the recent fallout from a comparatively minuscule number of bad actors. Been quite the headache for him.

One thing you might consider, once you have a decent enough setup, is starting the channel, promoting it here on your site, and getting a patreon account. A lot of Youtubers these days are crowdfunding their content and you'd be surprised how quickly you can get a viable revenue stream with a large enough audience who believes in your content. It does take time to build, but could be well worth it for your brand...

That case in the gallery is definitely getting closer to what might work. My setup is indeed a home built media center I put together out of stained wood boards and painted cinder blocks. Space is definitely at a premium, and will be moreso when I upgrade to a 65" screen. Is it bad to lay normal towers on their side, as that could be an option? Alternatively, do you know of anyplace that makes custom cases to spec?

No matter what I end up doing, the computer is probably going to have to sit on the floor, and in these older houses it's a constant battle against dust. Alternately I'm considering getting a big tower, and placing it all the way behind my couch, which will necessitate running a bunch of cables along the walls to get around to the media center, receiver, and tv opposite...

You know, one case that might work in your unique situation is the Corsair Carbide Air 540 (http://amzn.to/2nMMSyk). While it's a bit too tall for your application, set on its side it could work perfectly, as it's 13" wide (or 13" tall on its side). And its actual height isn't as high as most tower cases. You can certainly run full towers on their side, but they'll look funny and take up a ton of space horizontally. It has plenty of cooling and capacity for an ultra-high-end setup, and would make for quite an "elite" home theater setup!

Hi, I use the Air 540 in Ari's $1250 quiet build.  FYI, I think there is a grate on the right side of the case for the PSU fan exhaust or intake.  Not sure how everything is oriented in your build, but if you put the case on its side with the glass sode up, it might potentially block this airflow?

Cambie - you make an excellent point. Here's the internal layout of the right side of the case.

TekHed, you're right that the promotional shots don't show this side of the case, but Hexus.net (http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/chassis/56953-corsair-carbide-series-air-540/) included one in its review:

(http://img.hexus.net/v2/chassis/Corsair/540/Air540-02b.jpg)

You can see the internal layout in this Corsair marketing photo:

(http://www.corsair.com/~/media/corsair/product%20photos/cases/carbide-series/540/black/large/air540_hero_back.png)

Blocking airflow to the PSU, especially in an ultra-high-end system, is going to be a bad idea. Probably the best approach in this situation is to find some large stick-on feet, like you might see on an AV receiver, and affix them to the right side of the case (which will be face-down in his setup).
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 10, 2017, 01:06:09 PM
Is that intake or exhaust on the right side? Would little rubber stuck on feet be enough clearance? If it's intake, well... it's probably going to be on the floor and sick up a ton of dust and lint! :(
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 10, 2017, 01:08:46 PM
Is that intake or exhaust on the right side? Would little rubber stuck on feet be enough clearance? If it's intake, well... it's probably going to be on the floor and sick up a ton of dust and lint! :(

That's a PSU intake. Given that the PSU will only run its fan at load, it won't take in that much dust. In any event, most dust will be blown right out the back of the PSU. It's essentially a closed system.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 10, 2017, 01:13:48 PM
I know this case comes with dust filters in front. Can the be added to the psu intake?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 10, 2017, 03:50:46 PM
I know this case comes with dust filters in front. Can the be added to the psu intake?

That's something you'd have to custom make. Something as simple as a piece of screen door would work. That's what I've used on my HVAC equipment.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 15, 2017, 12:13:04 PM
More research...

Many PC gamers talk about running games at higher than 60 fps. Is there a benefit of doing so? Since I will be playing on a 4k OLED tv, which likely caps at 60 hz, is there a way to lock in framerates in a game to 60 on ultra settings?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 15, 2017, 01:28:32 PM
You'd just want to use VSync, or on Nvidia cards Adaptive VSync, to lock 60fps on a 4K TV. VSync produces a slight amount of lag due to the way it deletes some frames, but not using VSync causing tearing. Note that if the video card can't run at 60fps, you won't get 60fps even with VSync on. You'd instead get 30fps, as it locks to the nearest available refresh rate, which is 20, 30, or 60 on a TV.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 15, 2017, 01:44:42 PM
With this overpowered dream machine though, would the lag even be an issue?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 15, 2017, 06:19:20 PM
With this overpowered dream machine though, would the lag even be an issue?

Vsync imposes a lag separate from the framerate the system can achieve. It's the same for all PCs, but don't worry about it. If you don't like the effect, you just turn it off.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 15, 2017, 07:43:27 PM
Hm. I'm already looking at lag of 21 from the oled tv. That's the best they can do. Would the imposed lag from vsync take that number over 30? I've read that's the most you'd want to have which equates to a single frame. Screen tearing sucks as it ruins the immersion, though so does lag and framerate stutters. :(
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 15, 2017, 09:07:48 PM
Hm. I'm already looking at lag of 21 from the oled tv. That's the best they can do. Would the imposed lag from vsync take that number over 30? I've read that's the most you'd want to have which equates to a single frame. Screen tearing sucks as it ruins the immersion, though so does lag and framerate stutters. :(

Basically, there are always trade offs. You want ultimate contrast, you can't have low latency and high refresh rates, because OLED technology doesn't allow it.  If your primary purpose is twitch gaming, a TV really isn't the right pick. Later this year Asus is releasing a 27" 4K HDR 144Hz monitor. Nothing even close has ever existed. That may be what you need. Will probably come in at $1500. Not OLED, but the colors are amazing, saw it in person at CES.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 15, 2017, 09:37:16 PM
Hm. Well I'm not big into multiplayer shooters and whatnot. I mainly play single player games, some of which are shooters, i.e. Bioshock. Would the lag be an issue with games like The Witcher 3?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 16, 2017, 08:18:12 AM
Hm. Well I'm not big into multiplayer shooters and whatnot. I mainly play single player games, some of which are shooters, i.e. Bioshock. Would the lag be an issue with games like The Witcher 3?

Games like Bioshock and Witcher 3 really don't suffer that much from a little input lag. And they'll look great on a big OLED screen due to their bold colors.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 17, 2017, 10:45:16 AM
Heya!

Turns out this year's OLED screens can do 120hz!!!

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c7 (http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c7)

Game changer?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 17, 2017, 01:07:23 PM
Heya!

Turns out this year's OLED screens can do 120hz!!!

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c7 (http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c7)

Game changer?

Nope, not a game changer, and not for gaming, in fact. The C7, like many other TVs before it, including the C6, can interpolate up to 120Hz, but can't take a 120Hz signal.

I know the review says "It also supports a 120hz input, which is an excellent feature for PC gaming", but I don't think they know what they're talking about there. I'd wait and see if a gaming authority can test this and prove it's running at 120Hz.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 17, 2017, 01:14:53 PM
Do you recommend a better review site than rtings for TV reviews in the context of games? Would you consider adding TVs to your reviews here if not?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 17, 2017, 02:12:20 PM
Do you recommend a better review site than rtings for TV reviews in the context of games? Would you consider adding TVs to your reviews here if not?

Check out TFT Central (http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/). They have the best monitor reviews, bar none. They don't typically review TVs, but right on their homepage they have a link to an excellent article on HDR and how it translates to the PC market.

I have never seen proof that a 120Hz TV is accept frames rendered at 120 frames per second, and until a PC-oriented site determines it's true, it's not.

I can't review TVs due to the cost, but I know that the LG C6P I have does not accept 120Hz inputs despite being rated at 120Hz like so many other TVs.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 17, 2017, 03:51:21 PM
So I just got off the phone with LG custserv, and according to them this year's models do accept 120 hz input. I asked specifically with the wording you used and they still said yes. This was in regards to the C7.

I also asked about the B7, and was told they should be out by the end of this month and not as a Costco exclusive.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 17, 2017, 04:26:40 PM
So I just got off the phone with LG custserv, and according to them this year's models do accept 120 hz input. I asked specifically with the wording you used and they still said yes. This was in regards to the C7.

I also asked about the B7, and was told they should be out by the end of this month and not as a Costco exclusive.

This, frankly, would be a game-changer. LG, which isn't all that great at marketing to the PC community (witness its excellent but little-known 4K monitors like the 27" 27UD68 4K (http://amzn.to/2onFB8c) I have on my desk right now), should really be communicating this to the PC community if true, i.e., sampling to PC sites, not just TV sites.

But here's the problem: as far as I know, not a single 120Hz 4K panel exists. If LG suddenly got 120Hz to run properly on a 65" OLED, it would be shocking. Let's hold tight before getting too excited.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 24, 2017, 03:34:17 PM
So the B7 is finally out!

Going to do the responsible thing and get my car checked out and tuned up before I start splurging on any new toys, but then I'll be off to the races with HDR gaming on a shiny new PS4 pro and the best 65" flatscreen on the market!

Horizon Zero Dawn and Uncharted 4 should tide me over until August which is when I'm planning to build the Dream Machine as a birthday present to myself. Do you forsee any changes to this build either before then, or soon enough after to be worth waiting any longer?

On a related note, I found this site that offers magnetic dust filters that can go on the outside of my case over the PSU intake to prevent floor dust from getting sucked up:

http://www.demcifilter.com/Mobi/ (http://www.demcifilter.com/Mobi/)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 26, 2017, 03:20:46 PM
So the B7 is finally out!

Going to do the responsible thing and get my car checked out and tuned up before I start splurging on any new toys, but then I'll be off to the races with HDR gaming on a shiny new PS4 pro and the best 65" flatscreen on the market!

Horizon Zero Dawn and Uncharted 4 should tide me over until August which is when I'm planning to build the Dream Machine as a birthday present to myself. Do you forsee any changes to this build either before then, or soon enough after to be worth waiting any longer?

On a related note, I found this site that offers magnetic dust filters that can go on the outside of my case over the PSU intake to prevent floor dust from getting sucked up:

http://www.demcifilter.com/Mobi/ (http://www.demcifilter.com/Mobi/)

Bump for the above question, and to clarify that I was referring to any possible upgrades over the current champion Motherboard and CPU. On a related tangent, this is a few years off from being relevant (getting into the terabyte range), but wow:

https://www.geek.com/tech-science-3/intels-about-to-shakeup-computing-again-1697197/

Also, I was wondering if you had any advice on which is the best custom cooled version of the 1080 TI...the Asus Strix? Or would the liquid cooled Seahawk version outperform it? Or even better...do you foresee there being custom cooled versions of the TitanXp any time soon?

I saw in a video how large it is...do you think two of them will fit into the Corsair 540?


Thanks again for indulging me...the research is really going to ramp up for the next few months as I prepare to buy and build this beast. :)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 26, 2017, 06:48:53 PM
Hard to say exactly what will be here by August. Rumor has it that Intel's running scared at the Ryzen assault at the low-end and mid-range, which means Intel might do the sensible thing and release a six-core CPU on a mainstream platform. There are also rumors of an Intel 12-core CPU to combat AMD's pending 16-core CPU release.

In any event, if you're not buying anything until August, you can just check back then and see what's current! And yes, you should get liquid-cooled GTX 1080 Ti cards if they exist, which they probably will by August. They do not today.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 26, 2017, 07:57:42 PM
12 and 16 cores!!!!???!!! Holy crap.

Edit: According to this it won't be geared for gaming:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-ryzen-16-core/

In any case, yes I'll keep checking back (and saving more money as I go) until August.

With regards to cooling, you mentioned this model coming soon:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814137126

How would that compare in theory to something like the Asus  Strix:

https://rog.asus.com/articles/gaming-graphics-cards/the-rog-strix-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-takes-pascal-to-the-limit/

The strix also is a lot bigger...will two fit on the Dream machine motherboard in the Corsair 540 case we decided on?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 26, 2017, 10:11:37 PM
12 and 16 cores!!!!???!!! Holy crap.

Edit: According to this it won't be geared for gaming:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-ryzen-16-core/

In any case, yes I'll keep checking back (and saving more money as I go) until August.

With regards to cooling, you mentioned this model coming soon:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814137126

How would that compare in theory to something like the Asus  Strix:

https://rog.asus.com/articles/gaming-graphics-cards/the-rog-strix-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-takes-pascal-to-the-limit/

The strix also is a lot bigger...will two fit on the Dream machine motherboard in the Corsair 540 case we decided on?

You'll have no trouble mounting two Asus GTX 1080 Ti Strix (http://amzn.to/2q8LDvM) models in the Corsair Carbide 540, although you might also consider the EVGA GeForce GTX 1
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 26, 2017, 10:13:49 PM
12 and 16 cores!!!!???!!! Holy crap.

Edit: According to this it won't be geared for gaming:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-ryzen-16-core/

In any case, yes I'll keep checking back (and saving more money as I go) until August.

With regards to cooling, you mentioned this model coming soon:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814137126

How would that compare in theory to something like the Asus  Strix:

https://rog.asus.com/articles/gaming-graphics-cards/the-rog-strix-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-takes-pascal-to-the-limit/

The strix also is a lot bigger...will two fit on the Dream machine motherboard in the Corsair 540 case we decided on?

You'll have no trouble mounting two Asus GTX 1080 Ti Strix (http://amzn.to/2q8LDvM) models in the Corsair Carbide 540, although you might also consider the EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 (http://amzn.to/2p6farm). The Sea Hawk will be even better, although mounting them will take more work.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 26, 2017, 10:18:01 PM
So liquid cooled is categorically better? I noticed the corsair has room to mount fans on the top (or in my case on the side). How do modern get their liquid tubed to look so perfect in the case?

But yeah mainly I was asking which is the best of the bunch... 2 seahawks? What would be the pros/cons vs the strix or evga?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 26, 2017, 11:40:47 PM
This reviewer says not to turn it on its side...are his fears overblown? I'd put fans into the top (right side on its side) to further suck air out along with the rear exhaust, so it should get a ton of movement preventing heat buildup.

I don't quite understand why but both you and he say liquid cooling is going to be more difficult to mount?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 27, 2017, 07:57:28 AM
So liquid cooled is categorically better? I noticed the corsair has room to mount fans on the top (or in my case on the side). How do modern get their liquid tubed to look so perfect in the case?

But yeah mainly I was asking which is the best of the bunch... 2 seahawks? What would be the pros/cons vs the strix or evga?

Liquid cooled will run cooler, period. Is that better? In the sense that GPUs will run at their maximum possible clock rates, yes it is. All else being equal (i.e., overclocking luck of the draw), liquid-cooled Pascal GPUs will run around two bins higher than any other GPU, translating to around 25MHz. That simply due to temperature thresholds built into the GPU's logic. It must be below 60C to run at full speed, and no air-cooled 1080 Ti can run that cool.

But liquid-cooled video cards are much louder than a good air cooler, and are a pain to install. You have thick coolant tubes that you need to route through your case, and you have two parts to install, rather than one, both of which are heavy and will want to drop on your motherboard while you're working on them.

If you're not experienced with liquid cooling, I'd recommend you get air-cooled models, especially for an HTPC.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 27, 2017, 09:11:09 AM
Ideally I can find someone local and experienced to help me build it, who can walk me through each step in such a way that I will know how to do it on my own next time.

Thanks for the technical explanation of the needed temperature.

You don't think turning the case on its side, window up, will be an issue? The case reviewer said there isn't room in the case for a reservoir...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 27, 2017, 10:03:56 AM
Ideally I can find someone local and experienced to help me build it, who can walk me through each step in such a way that I will know how to do it on my own next time.

Thanks for the technical explanation of the needed temperature.

You don't think turning the case on its side, window up, will be an issue? The case reviewer said there isn't room in the case for a reservoir...

You didn't actually include the link to the article you were citing, but if you use a 240mm liquid cooler plus two liquid-cooled video cards, you can set it up fine.

I'd suggest you sit tight until you're ready to buy, and then come back to put together a parts list based on what's available at that point.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 27, 2017, 10:14:19 AM
Oh woops...I totally meant to paste the link.

Relevant page here:

http://www.legitreviews.com/corsair-carbide-air-540-atx-cube-case-review_2230/6
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 27, 2017, 11:08:42 AM
Oh woops...I totally meant to paste the link.

Relevant page here:

http://www.legitreviews.com/corsair-carbide-air-540-atx-cube-case-review_2230/6

Here's what they say:
Quote
If you didnít catch it, your ODDís will mount sideways into this bay. If you want to use these for a water cooling reservoir instead, youíre kind of screwed unless you orient the case in a way that you could use it. If you use this case how Corsair wanted you to, youíre left to find a different reservoir, unfortunately. I know for myself, one of my personal systems has a Koolance dual 5.25Ē bay reservoir, and I wouldnít be able to use it on this case. Thatís unfortunate, but thatís the nature of this case. I also probably wouldnít want change the orientation of the case to make it work, as itíll throw off the cooling and heat dissipation properties, leaving heat to soak at the window instead of rising through the open top.

I'm not at all concerned. First, you'll need to use a Corsair H100i v2 CPU cooler (http://amzn.to/2oQfs2P), but that's really not an issue, because you were going to need to do so anyway due to clearance issues in this relatively-compact case. He's referring to free-standing reservoirs in custom-cooling loops, which is most definitely NOT what I'd recommend in your situation. As for heat rising, it's again not relevant in your theoretical setup. In a liquid-cooled system, nearly all heat is exhausted directly out of the case. Note that to get this to work in a case this small, you'll need to set up both video cards exhausting out the front, and set the rear fan as intake. You'll also want your CPU cooler exhausting out the top (or side, in your situation).
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 27, 2017, 11:44:17 AM
Huh, I wouldn't have thought to reverse the fan flow. This is why you're such an amazing resource!

Would you recommend upgrading from the fans that come with the case?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 28, 2017, 04:29:05 PM
Huh, I wouldn't have thought to reverse the fan flow. This is why you're such an amazing resource!

Would you recommend upgrading from the fans that come with the case?

The way you're going to set this up, you won't probably won't be using the case fans, at least in front, as you'd be mounting radiators and their included fans. The one remaining fan could certainly be upgraded if you wanted, and Corsair's ML140 fan (http://amzn.to/2oRtSyX) is the best on the market.

I'd wait on making any decisions until you're closer to being ready to order the gear. Your priorities may change, or new products may launch.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 28, 2017, 07:46:39 PM
I know I know...check back when I'm ready to pull the trigger.  :P

I don't quite understand though...the two sea hawks or what have you are going to be going out one side. Does the CPU cooler attach to the front? Since the rear is going to be the intake (which does make the front dust filter useless! Good thing I found that company that makes custom magnetic ones), don't I need at least one fan blowing air out of the case out the front? I will definitely look into the upgrade. :)

P.S. I finally pulled the trigger today and ordered an LG 65 C7 OLED, a wall mount for it, a new stereo receiver that can handle 4k/HDR passthrough, a PS4 Pro, and several games. Dropped about 6K in total. Will still have plenty for my dream machine come August.  ;D
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 28, 2017, 09:35:49 PM
Congrats on all that new gear, should be very nice!

What you're going to do with the Corsair Carbide Air 540 (http://amzn.to/2pfdGLj) is remove the front fans and mount the Sea Hawk radiators on with fans blowing through them and out the front, mount the Corsair H100i v2 (http://amzn.to/2qoPl3p) to the top of the case, again with fans blowing through and out, and reverse the direction of the stock 140mm rear fan to it acts as an intake. Overall, you're going to have quite a bit of negative pressure in the case, but this is still the best option with so many radiators.

The side dust filter is for the PSU intake, which is completely separate from all the other fans, so yes, you could still use a dust filter on it.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 28, 2017, 09:52:11 PM
Negative pressure?

The hv200i is the cpu cooler yes?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 29, 2017, 09:24:54 AM
Negative pressure?

The hv200i is the cpu cooler yes?

You'll be using the Corsair Hydro H100i v2 CPU Cooler (http://amzn.to/2pgzWo6).

Negative pressure is caused by more air being drawn out than pushed in, and typically forces air to be drawn in through passive vents in the chassis. This can in turn lead to some dust buildup. I'm still debating in my head what the best setup would be for your needs. That's in part why I'd like you to check back in when you're ready to buy, as I can then really give some thought to the exact parts to use. I might prefer air-cooled GPUs in your situation, in part due to the relatively small size of the case (it's ATX, but it's not in the "super-tower" ATX class I recommend for the Supreme Dream Machine).

By the way, because this build is really getting to be pretty different from the standard Supreme Dream Machine, I'm going to split off this topic into a separate thread on the forum.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 29, 2017, 10:07:52 AM
Ok, I'll look for the new topic. :)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 29, 2017, 11:19:26 AM
Subscribed. :)

Yeah I did some research and there seemed to be a lot if debate about pressure. Some say negative for getting the heat out, some say positive for the dust, which in my old house really is a major issue, especially on the floor where this will likely sit. I wish I had more space but I just do not!

Thanks for giving it more thought. Why are you recommending a different cpu cooler than the dream one? And didn't you just say liquid is categorically better?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 29, 2017, 11:29:47 AM
Subscribed. :)

Yeah I did some research and there seemed to be a lot if debate about pressure. Some say negative for getting the heat out, some say positive for the dust, which in my old house really is a major issue, especially on the floor where this will likely sit. I wish I had more space but I just do not!

Thanks for giving it more thought. Why are you recommending a different cpu cooler than the dream one? And didn't you just say liquid is categorically better?

The semi-custom cooler in the Supreme guide may not fit in this case, which is why I'm recommending a different one.

And yes, liquid cooling is categorically better from a performance point of view. From the point of view of a builder and end-user, however, it is not. It's much harder to install, especially in the setup you are considering with three radiators in a small space, and typically much louder as well. In fact, this system will VERY loud with three pumps in it. If you need that last 1% of performance, then you go liquid, but it has very significant downsides.

Like I said, I'm giving it some more thought.  ;)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on April 29, 2017, 11:35:18 AM
Oh wow. I thought liquid would be less noisy than a bunch of fans.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on April 29, 2017, 11:41:08 AM
Oh wow. I thought liquid would be less noisy than a bunch of fans.

Nope, still requires just as many fans, if not more. And it's the pump that's really loud.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on May 05, 2017, 10:49:00 AM
You might be interested in my initial impressions on watching 4K HDR content on the LG 65" C6P: http://techbuyersguru.com/forum/index.php?topic=386.msg4061#msg4061

To cut to the chase, this is why I make recommendations regarding cutting-edge tech based on my own reviews, not those of other review sites.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on July 04, 2017, 01:15:35 PM
Hi Ari!

Been a minute so wanted to check in and touch base.

First of all, congratulations on your new partnership, and for getting a Youtube channel going. Keep up the great work putting out content!

Have you given any more thought to the challenge of this build?

As it turns out, for tax purposes, it is to my advantage to spend as much money as possible on a new PC, though that does not supercede the desire for performance, i.e. I'd still get the 1080ti over the more expensive Titan xp.

I am however a bit concerned after seeing your cryptocurrency article. As long as I buy and build before the end of the year I'm good, and I do want to get the best build money can buy in that time.

Thoughts?

P.S. Happy 4th!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on July 04, 2017, 03:08:14 PM
Things have changed a bit since we last conversed. There are all new high end Intel CPUs, which you'll definitely want to use, but which run pretty hot. Second, there's mining, and everything but the 1080 Ti has risen in price dramatically. Then there's the continuing increase in SSDs and RAM.

Can you provide a ranking of importance of the following three factors?
1) noise
2) size
3) performance

A rough budget would be helpful too.

I should add that I've now tested a liquid cooled GTX 1080 Ti, and while it's ideal for a system that will be used for nothing but gaming, the idle noise is too high for a home theater PC.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on July 05, 2017, 02:19:05 AM
The size limits are pretty much unalterable, as it has to fit into the space previously discussed.

Will be used primarily for gaming, though obviously if it's too loud that can drown out the sounds of the game and interfere with immersion.

Best performance possible, with a budget of 10k or possibly more...

We had found a great case I could rig on its side, which looked perfect but for the issues of negative pressure.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on July 05, 2017, 06:34:34 AM
The size limits are pretty much unalterable, as it has to fit into the space previously discussed.

Will be used primarily for gaming, though obviously if it's too loud that can drown out the sounds of the game and interfere with immersion.

Best performance possible, with a budget of 10k or possibly more...

We had found a great case I could rig on its side, which looked perfect but for the issues of negative pressure.

Ok, got it. With this information in hand, I can recommend a few updates for you. I'll put together a list and post back a little later. We're going all liquid!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on July 05, 2017, 08:47:33 AM
All right, here you go with an updated build using the latest components, literally some so new that you'll need to pre-order them:

(1) CPU: Intel Core i9-7900X (http://amzn.to/2tpa9dD)
(2) Motherboard: Asus ROG Strix X299 (http://amzn.to/2rNahGM)
(3) Video Cards: 2x EVGA GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Hybrid (http://amzn.to/2uK5r9Z)
(4) Memory: Corsair 4x8GB Vengeance LPX DDR4-3200 (http://amzn.to/2uKdKTt)
(5) Case: Corsair Carbide 540 (http://amzn.to/2sMjmeu)
(6) Power Supply: Seasonic Snow Silent 1050W Platinum (http://amzn.to/2sMEnZV)
(7) Primary SSD: Samsung 960 Pro 1TB MLC PCIe (http://amzn.to/2tMqcEH)
(8 ) Secondary SSD: Mushkin Reactor 2TB MLC SATA (http://amzn.to/2sMuGqP)
(9) CPU Cooler: Corsair Hydro H100i v2 (http://amzn.to/2tR1wMk)
(10) OS: Windows 10 Flash Drive (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01019T6O0/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B01019T6O0&linkCode=as2&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=UUO4ACBMDRG7JZNI)
(11) Optical Drive (if required): LG 24x DVD Burner (http://amzn.to/28SmRrH) or LG 16x Blu-Ray Burner (http://amzn.to/2tIXp4z)
 
Note that this setup will draw a lot of power. I'm very serious about the PSU requirement listed above - you actually do need this much wattage. Also, the Mushkin Reactor drive is a rare find at its pricepoint, featuring fast MLC NAND. While it's an older design, it's what I recommend for you as long as it's available.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on July 05, 2017, 10:20:36 AM
Is there a reason why you downgraded the SSD and ram? Would like to max out everything including the 6 TB SSD. The idea was to fit the dream machine into a smaller form factor, with the case you recommended before. You were just concerned about fan placement and negative air pressure...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on July 05, 2017, 11:05:47 AM
Is there a reason why you downgraded the SSD and ram? Would like to max out everything including the 6 TB SSD. The idea was to fit the dream machine into a smaller form factor, with the case you recommended before. You were just concerned about fan placement and negative air pressure...

The 850 Evo 4TB has skyrocketed in price since we last chatted. It's still listed in the Supreme Dream Machine, but truth be told it's a bit of a waste of money. Get two of the Mushkin Reactors if you want 4TB of space. And of course, you can get the 960 Pro 2TB rather than the 1TB. I just used that as a reference point.

With the liquid cooler setup, you're not going to have to worry about negative pressure. You'll have relatively balanced pressure, and liquid cooling really doesn't need positive pressure to work well.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on July 05, 2017, 11:10:36 AM
The negative pressure issue was more about the case being on the floor and sucking up dust, which is a constant issue in my house...dust, carpet lint, dog hair, etc...

The funny thing is I have incentive to "waste" money as my computer counts as an expense, and lowers my tax liability.

This will all fit into that same case turned on its side?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on July 05, 2017, 11:19:06 AM
You'll want all your coolers blowing out to keep dust to a minimum. All intakes should have dust filters (the front of the case does).

And yes, everything will fit in the Corsair Air 540.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on July 05, 2017, 05:19:33 PM
My plan is still to build in September at the earliest and December at the latest...do you anticipate this build would change much in that window?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on July 05, 2017, 05:54:45 PM
My plan is still to build in September at the earliest and December at the latest...do you anticipate this build would change much in that window?

September no, December probably.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on July 06, 2017, 02:04:53 AM
What's on the horizon for December?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on July 06, 2017, 07:23:24 AM
What's on the horizon for December?

Intel 20-cores, Nvidia Volta, or potentially both.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on July 06, 2017, 10:03:07 AM
Damn. On one hand that sounds beast. On the other, no games are going to need 20 cores for years...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on July 06, 2017, 12:15:56 PM
Damn. On one hand that sounds beast. On the other, no games are going to need 20 cores for years...

Agreed on both counts. And it will be $2,000, meaning it's a money-eating beast!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on July 07, 2017, 06:13:47 PM
Damn. On one hand that sounds beast. On the other, no games are going to need 20 cores for years...

Agreed on both counts. And it will be $2,000, meaning it's a money-eating beast!

Still, that is to my tax benefit!!! Also for future proofing, though who knows what crazy new architectures are on the horizon...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on July 13, 2017, 01:59:58 PM
Forum reader Improwise was interested in this build and posted some questions here about building a silent 4K gaming PC, but I've since split his discussion into a separate thread, which you can see here (http://techbuyersguru.com/forum/index.php?topic=436.0).
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on August 02, 2017, 08:45:42 PM
So...this just dropped an hour ago...

http://wccftech.com/intel-core-i9-7980xe-flagship-cpu-18-october-launch/

So, this is going in the Supreme Dream build in October then? :)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on August 02, 2017, 11:07:36 PM
So...this just dropped an hour ago...

http://wccftech.com/intel-core-i9-7980xe-flagship-cpu-18-october-launch/

So, this is going in the Supreme Dream build in October then? :)

Yes, most likely. But it certainly won't be the best value option!

On a related note, I've asked AMD if they'd be willing to send a Threadripper my way. Didn't get a commitment...although they did send me a Ryzen previously, so one can always hope. These could be really interesting in the $3,500-$5,000 PC segment. The 7980xe will definitely be limited to the Supreme build, which is designed around a $8,000-$10,000 budget.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on August 02, 2017, 11:12:07 PM
I thought it was designed around an unlimited budget?  ;)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on August 03, 2017, 07:03:18 AM
I thought it was designed around an unlimited budget?  ;)

You're right! Thus far, it really hasn't been possible to spend more than $10,000, but we can always count on Intel and  Nvidia to regularly make tech more expensive despite everyone's belief that it gets cheaper over time!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on August 03, 2017, 12:10:23 PM
Yeah that article was interesting in that it pointed out how the PC market has been dwindling in the face of phones, tablets, and cheap notebooks. The only sector that is growing is the real high end enthusiast stuff, for gamers and video production.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on August 03, 2017, 04:01:53 PM
The build as we have it set now...should I expect it to be super loud?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on August 03, 2017, 04:41:41 PM
The build as we have it set now...should I expect it to be super loud?

Super-loud? No. Quiet at idle? No, not that either. Remember, you have three separate liquid coolers in this system, and they all run their pumps full time. For gaming, this will actually be quieter than most air-cooled builds, and will of course perform better. But it's no docile web surfer.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on August 10, 2017, 03:24:02 PM
Apparently they bumped the release date up to September 25th!

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/08/intel-i9-7980xe-launch-date-price/
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on August 10, 2017, 04:21:28 PM
Apparently they bumped the release date up to September 25th!

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/08/intel-i9-7980xe-launch-date-price/

Indeed! You can thank AMD for this, but one word of warning. Intel likely can't actually deliver much on the launch date. The 7900X hasn't been available for weeks after selling out at launch. If you want a 7980XE on launch day or anytime in the next few months, you'll want to preorder.

Intel may have changed release dates, but it can't do much to speed up actual production.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on August 10, 2017, 04:40:06 PM
There's probably nothing better coming out this year eh?

How come the AMD threadripper isn't on the dream machine?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on August 10, 2017, 09:44:04 PM
There's probably nothing better coming out this year eh?

How come the AMD threadripper isn't on the dream machine?

Something better this year than the unreleased 7980XE? Man, you're really asking for a lot here! No, there won't be anything better for a long, long time, and my guess is that the 7980XE won't actually be available in quantity until December.

By the way, I was fully expecting someone to ask why the Threadripper is in the $5,000 machine and not the Supreme Dream Machine, but I thought it might take longer than a few hours! I'll keep it short and sweet: having published these guides for several years now, I know who typically goes for the $5,000 build and who goes for the Supreme Dream Machine. There are actually people looking for high-end productivity machines at $5,000. Folks spending $10,000 are doing it for fun, and the main use is gaming. The Intel Skylake-X processors are better gaming CPUs than Threadripper, period, no ifs, ands, or buts. Threadripper on the other hand is by far the better processor for getting work done. And while the 7980XE will beat it, it will also cost an additional $1,000. One more minor reason: buyers of the dream machine love to overclock, and AMD's Ryzen-based CPUs just don't have a ton of headroom, limiting the fun somewhat.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on August 26, 2017, 06:13:35 PM
So I'm pretty much ready to pull the trigger and start buying components now. I heard the i9-7980xe is now available for preorder, but can't for the life of me figure out where or how. I went to Intel's site, which was no help, which seems counterproductive for them if people just want to purchase. Any recommendations?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on August 26, 2017, 09:42:03 PM
So I'm pretty much ready to pull the trigger and start buying components now. I heard the i9-7980xe is now available for preorder, but can't for the life of me figure out where or how. I went to Intel's site, which was no help, which seems counterproductive for them if people just want to purchase. Any recommendations?

Wherever you read that rumor would probably be the place to start, but as far as I know, the 7980XE isn't arriving until late October. I see that one UK-based store  (https://www.overclockers.co.uk/intel-core-i9-7980xe-extreme-2.6ghz-skylake-x-basin-falls-socket-lga2066-processor-retail-cp-63p-in.html)well known for publicity-seeking had it up for pre-order, but I'm sure this had nothing to do with an official Intel agreement, but rather just pre-selling of product that has not even been ordered, let alone inventoried.

As I've said before, I wouldn't count on  the 7980XE arriving in a timely fashion or being available in quantity upon release.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on August 26, 2017, 10:03:12 PM
This says 9/25...less than a month!

https://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2017/08/intel-i9-7980xe-launch-date-price/

 ;D

...but seriously, you did suggest preordering this stuff, so any advice on how to do so would be awesome. I'm having trouble navigating all of these options and the seeming veil of obtuseness around ordering/preordering...which is why I come here! For that straight talk.  :)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on August 26, 2017, 10:30:07 PM
This says 9/25...less than a month!

https://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2017/08/intel-i9-7980xe-launch-date-price/

 ;D

...but seriously, you did suggest preordering this stuff, so any advice on how to do so would be awesome. I'm having trouble navigating all of these options and the seeming veil of obtuseness around ordering/preordering...which is why I come here! For that straight talk.  :)

Oh, absolutely, glad you posted. It just ticks me off a bit when various outlets play the hype game more than they should. My guess is that Sept. 25th will be the pre-order date. Even a few years ago, CPU pre-orders would have been absolutely unheard of, as it's a bit of a "gamey" approach to marketing, but both Intel and AMD are going at it full on this year, and the Sept. 25th date is likely a full month before the CPUs will ship. When I see more verifiable information on the pre-orders, I'll post here.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on September 27, 2017, 12:30:46 AM
All right, here you go with an updated build using the latest components, literally some so new that you'll need to pre-order them:

(1) CPU: Intel Core i9-7900X (http://amzn.to/2tpa9dD)
(2) Motherboard: Asus ROG Strix X299 (http://amzn.to/2rNahGM)
(3) Video Cards: 2x EVGA GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Hybrid (http://amzn.to/2uK5r9Z)
(4) Memory: Corsair 4x8GB Vengeance LPX DDR4-3200 (http://amzn.to/2uKdKTt)
(5) Case: Corsair Carbide 540 (http://amzn.to/2sMjmeu)
(6) Power Supply: Seasonic Snow Silent 1050W Platinum (http://amzn.to/2sMEnZV)
(7) Primary SSD: Samsung 960 Pro 1TB MLC PCIe (http://amzn.to/2tMqcEH)
(8 ) Secondary SSD: Mushkin Reactor 2TB MLC SATA (http://amzn.to/2sMuGqP)
(9) CPU Cooler: Corsair Hydro H100i v2 (http://amzn.to/2tR1wMk)
(10) OS: Windows 10 Flash Drive (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01019T6O0/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B01019T6O0&linkCode=as2&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=UUO4ACBMDRG7JZNI)
(11) Optical Drive (if required): LG 24x DVD Burner (http://amzn.to/28SmRrH) or LG 16x Blu-Ray Burner (http://amzn.to/2tIXp4z)
 
Note that this setup will draw a lot of power. I'm very serious about the PSU requirement listed above - you actually do need this much wattage. Also, the Mushkin Reactor drive is a rare find at its pricepoint, featuring fast MLC NAND. While it's an older design, it's what I recommend for you as long as it's available.

Pretty much ready to buy now, but despite reviews for the i9-7980xe, I can't figure out how to order it. Any ideas?

Are there going to be any updates to the Dream Machine for September, or is the above list still good to go? I will probably max out memory, just because, and go for the wasteful 6 terabytes storage (if nothing else is better) as I will definitely make use of all the space...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on September 27, 2017, 08:04:37 AM
Funny you should ask, TekHed, as I was just working on the October update to the Supreme Dream Machine last night, but was struggling to find high-end CPUs, video cards, and power supplies in stock. Luckily, all that has been sorted out now - check it out at this link (https://techbuyersguru.com/supreme-dream-machine-pc-build).

Note that Intel has firmly embraced the art of the paper launch, and in fact almost every processor it has released this year has been paper launched. So, today, the fastest processor you can buy is the twelve-core Core i9-7920X. The Core i9-7980XE has been "launched", but it doesn't actually exist except as engineering samples in a few reviewers' hands. It's actually not shipping until the end of October, and honestly, for your purposes, I wouldn't bother waiting. Yes, it will have 18 cores versus 12 on the 7920X, but it will also cost nearly twice as much. For gaming, it won't be any faster (and in fact, will overclock worse), so the only reason to wait for it is if you seriously do a ton of compression or video encoding work.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on September 27, 2017, 11:51:25 AM
Yeah..probably overkill. By the time 12 cores start to show their age, it will be a couple years (at least) and I'll be able to upgrade to the new hotness.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on September 27, 2017, 05:32:11 PM
So interesting how a couple months ago, a less powerful version was over 10 grand, then last month it was 9 grand, and now it's even MORE powerful but only 8 grand. Of course it will get vastly leapfrogged at the end of October, but as you say, there is no game on the market that will use all 12 cores anyway. If I want to upgrade next year there will probably be 20 core options and VOLTA. :)

Still, odd how the pricing works.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on September 27, 2017, 06:28:09 PM
So interesting how a couple months ago, a less powerful version was over 10 grand, then last month it was 9 grand, and now it's even MORE powerful but only 8 grand. Of course it will get vastly leapfrogged at the end of October, but as you say, there is no game on the market that will use all 12 cores anyway. If I want to upgrade next year there will probably be 20 core options and VOLTA. :)

Still, odd how the pricing works.

Yeah, it's actually pretty amazing that in just six months, this system is $2,000 less, yet it's also faster is every possible way. In part, that comes from ditching the $900 Enthoo Elite case (http://amzn.to/2nIMKzw), which was just a little too much money, but most of the savings is in the better CPU that's $500 less, and the faster liquid-cooled GPUs that are each $400 less than the Titan Xp, which is a hilariously heat-bottlenecked model. All this and it has a far superior CPU cooler and a 4K UHD drive.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on October 07, 2017, 12:34:30 PM
Bah!

Ok, so looks like I'm postponing my purchases until end of November/early December. Planning a huge business trip for November and also getting a product set up for launch before I leave so just don't have the time to focus on the PC, and I won't be around when the parts arrive. Better to just wait until I get back.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on October 07, 2017, 01:19:35 PM
Bah!

Ok, so looks like I'm postponing my purchases until end of November/early December. Planning a huge business trip for November and also getting a product set up for launch before I leave so just don't have the time to focus on the PC, and I won't be around when the parts arrive. Better to just wait until I get back.

Well, with any luck, you may have either a few more component choices, or some Black Friday deals to choose from when you're ready to order.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on October 31, 2017, 09:21:49 PM
How much do you think I might be able to save on Black Friday for the Supreme Build? Are we talking like $1,000 off? More? Less?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on October 31, 2017, 09:50:06 PM
How much do you think I might be able to save on Black Friday for the Supreme Build? Are we talking like $1,000 off? More? Less?

Having closely followed (and reported on) the Black Friday deals available starting back in 2013, I can give you a pretty good sense of what you're going to see:

(1) Intel sometimes discounts its high-end CPUs by $100, but it will be SKU specific, and I don't see it discounting the brand-new 7960X CPU (https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Core-i9-7960X-Processors-BX80673I97960X/dp/B075XRYMDS/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1509511168&sr=1-1&keywords=7960X+CPU&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=93284708da0bab26b6b688ef404254a9) you'll find in this build (which can barely even be purchased at this point)
(2) video cards are never discounted (except for low-end closeouts)
(3) Samsung SSDs may be discounted 10-20% (so $100-$200 on the 960 Pro 2TB (https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-960-PRO-Internal-MZ-V6P2T0BW/dp/B01LY3Y9PH/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1509511093&sr=8-1&keywords=960+Pro+2TB&dpID=41QzY%252Bdy5ML&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=84a4c799846023b360e113d3bd286964))
(4) high-end motherboards are not discounted, as they aren't an "impulse buy" item
(5) RAM is typically discounted, but it won't be this year, due to the massive DRAM shortage (prices will almost certainly be 10-20% higher on Black Friday than they are today)
(6) Case and cooler discounts are very manufacturer-specific, and I'll admit that I haven't followed Thermaltake closely in the past (the new View 71 (https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Tempered-Vertical-Pre-installed-CA-1I7-00F1WN-01/dp/B074ZN21M8/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1509511332&sr=1-1&keywords=View+71&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=f0b73aa89fcb6e9c1b05cd68087810e9) case and Pacific 360 cooler (https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Pacific-Capacity-Cooling-CL-W113-CA12SW/dp/B01BI0X9MQ/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1509511348&sr=1-1&keywords=Pacific+360+cooler&dpID=41bj8SEKDbL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=b3ccd04e33d1294544df7bd384b21ccf) are the current recommendations for the build). I'd guess we might see a 10% discount on those.
(7) Creative Labs always discounts its gear on Black Friday, by around 20-30%, which translates to around $50 on the ZxR Sound Card (https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Blaster-Audiophile-Performance-Headphone/dp/B00AQ5PK6I/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1509511420&sr=1-1&keywords=zxr&dpID=41ye4g6tnpL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=a78240342e567082210a8fd2539250ab).
(8 ) Ultra-high-end PSUs are not discounted, as they, like motherboards, are not "impulse buy" material either.

So, all in all, I think this type of build won't see a lot of discounts, as the gear just isn't what retailers would want to use as loss leaders. If manufacturers want to pass along discounts, that's where you'll see them, and I know that Intel, Samsung, and Creative Labs routinely do across-the-board promotions at every retailer. Corsair does too, but I don't think you'll see RAM discounted this year, as discussed above. I'm also not positive that Samsung will discount the 960 Pro, which is where you'd get the most savings, given its price.

My best guess is that you'd save about $300-$400 shopping on Black Friday, depending on how much you lose waiting on the RAM, and whether Samsung discounts its best SSD.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on October 31, 2017, 11:00:08 PM
Huh. Ah well. Glad I asked though!

It turns out I'm spending WAY more than I thought on my vacation next month, so I might have to kick the can (yet again) into next year sometime. I've been so busy with work and everything that I haven't had much time for gaming, and I still have a pretty large backlog of games for my PS3 and PS4 so it's not like I need to build the PC now. The money I'm expensing for my business trip/vacay is probably plenty for deduction purposes. If I have anything left to spend at the end of the year I may make it a Christmas present; will have to wait and see. And who knows, maybe early next year Volta will change the whole game. :)

As always thanks for your help!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 01, 2017, 12:12:59 PM
Huh. Ah well. Glad I asked though!

It turns out I'm spending WAY more than I thought on my vacation next month, so I might have to kick the can (yet again) into next year sometime. I've been so busy with work and everything that I haven't had much time for gaming, and I still have a pretty large backlog of games for my PS3 and PS4 so it's not like I need to build the PC now. The money I'm expensing for my business trip/vacay is probably plenty for deduction purposes. If I have anything left to spend at the end of the year I may make it a Christmas present; will have to wait and see. And who knows, maybe early next year Volta will change the whole game. :)

As always thanks for your help!

Remember, you don't need to buy a $9,000 computer to play PC games, so there's always something a bit less extreme!

For more insights on PC component sales during Black Friday, see my analysis piece from 2016 (https://techbuyersguru.com/black-friday-2016-recap).
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 01, 2017, 12:30:12 PM
It's not about need...  :P
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on October 13, 2018, 03:55:34 AM
Woohoo!

Okay, we are getting ever closer...questions!

1. Will the current iteration of the SDM fit into the case we were discussing here?

2. When are we getting liquid-cooled 2080Ti's?

3. If I really want a LOT more TB of storage in the SDM, what would you recommend? I'm already outgrown my 4 TB RAID drive and want to step it up from there, ideally in a solid state medium...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on October 13, 2018, 08:04:07 AM
Woohoo!

Okay, we are getting ever closer...questions!

1. Will the current iteration of the SDM fit into the case we were discussing here?

2. When are we getting liquid-cooled 2080Ti's?

3. If I really want a LOT more TB of storage in the SDM, what would you recommend? I'm already outgrown my 4 TB RAID drive and want to step it up from there, ideally in a solid state medium...

Ha, ha, yes, the Supreme Dream Machine (https://techbuyersguru.com/supreme-dream-machine-pc-build) has awoken from its slumber!

1. In terms of the case, I think you're referring to the Phanteks Evolv X (http://www.anrdoezrs.net/links/7120282/type/dlg/https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811854078&cm_re=phanteks_evolv_x-_-11-854-078-_-Product), there's nothing in the current SDM that wouldn't fit into it. But Phanteks is having some trouble delivering these to market in any significant quantities, so you may want to consider some other options (including the case listed in the current buyer's guide). Another one that might show up in the guide around the holidays is the new Cooler Master Cosmos C700M (http://www.coolermaster.com/case/full-tower/cosmos-c700m/), which was released for reviews only (a practice I despise!). There's no ETA on it, but boy, does it look good (as well it should with an MSRP of $440!). At this point, the SDM has moved on from giant glass boxes, like the Thermaltake View 91 (https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Tempered-Vertical-Pre-installed-CA-1I9-00F1WN-00/dp/B079FZ77DB/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1539442527&sr=8-3&keywords=Thermaltake+View+91&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=625cbc7f954992a4c218c2b72cc420a3&language=en_US) and Corsair Obsidian 1000D (https://www.amazon.com/CORSAIR-OBSIDIAN-Super-Tower-Tempered-Aluminum/dp/B07BQG4TM3/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1539442555&sr=8-2&keywords=1000d&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=6a451ffa743a07dee9f8e0c158cc8ca1&language=en_US), which simply don't represent the state-of-the-art in case design anymore. Phanteks and Cooler Master are clearly taking risks and trying to move the ball forward.

2. Don't hold your breath on the liquid-cooled 2080 Tis. With the air-cooled models essentially non-existent nearly 4 weeks after "launch", this is most definitely a paper launch. Nvidia wasn't ready to deliver these. My bet is that liquid-cooled models will arrive in early December. Note that running two will definitely require a super-tower case.

3. If you want to beyond the 1TB Optane and 2TB 970 Pro RAID in the current SDM, I assume it's for data and media, not apps. So extreme speed isn't required. I'd pop in a Samsung 860 Evo 4TB 2.5" drive (https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Inch-Internal-MZ-76E4T0B-AM/dp/B07864XY8B/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1539442795&sr=1-3&keywords=4tb+ssd&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=8811df711e5520f3467a0001e731b757&language=en_US). Sure, it's not PCIe, and it's not M.2, but you won't find 4TB drives with either of those features, and for bulk storage, you really don't need them.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on October 13, 2018, 11:01:36 AM
1. No, though it's been awhile so I don't blame you for forgetting! The reason you split this into a separate discussion thread is I'm working with a specific small block of space where the machine needs to fit into a boxy hollow about 15-16" tall at most, sitting on the ground. We start discussing it on page 3 or 4 I think but here is the case you previously suggested that I am asking if is still relevant...

Yeah one of my clients is a senior engineer/team leader at Youtube, and he's been having to deal with all of the recent fallout from a comparatively minuscule number of bad actors. Been quite the headache for him.

One thing you might consider, once you have a decent enough setup, is starting the channel, promoting it here on your site, and getting a patreon account. A lot of Youtubers these days are crowdfunding their content and you'd be surprised how quickly you can get a viable revenue stream with a large enough audience who believes in your content. It does take time to build, but could be well worth it for your brand...

That case in the gallery is definitely getting closer to what might work. My setup is indeed a home built media center I put together out of stained wood boards and painted cinder blocks. Space is definitely at a premium, and will be moreso when I upgrade to a 65" screen. Is it bad to lay normal towers on their side, as that could be an option? Alternatively, do you know of anyplace that makes custom cases to spec?

No matter what I end up doing, the computer is probably going to have to sit on the floor, and in these older houses it's a constant battle against dust. Alternately I'm considering getting a big tower, and placing it all the way behind my couch, which will necessitate running a bunch of cables along the walls to get around to the media center, receiver, and tv opposite...

You know, one case that might work in your unique situation is the Corsair Carbide Air 540 (http://amzn.to/2nMMSyk). While it's a bit too tall for your application, set on its side it could work perfectly, as it's 13" wide (or 13" tall on its side). And its actual height isn't as high as most tower cases. You can certainly run full towers on their side, but they'll look funny and take up a ton of space horizontally. It has plenty of cooling and capacity for an ultra-high-end setup, and would make for quite an "elite" home theater setup!

2. December would be perfect actually, so it will still be a tax writeoff for the year.

3.Both actually. This is supposed to be a high end 4k gaming rig but my movie and TV show archive is 5 TB and growing...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on October 13, 2018, 11:17:13 AM
The Corsair Air 540 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H8JLM94/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=cc7ca54f935eb116297a6fac615bb6b7&language=en_US) is probably going to be discontinued soon, so you may want to snap one up. It's been replaced by the Air 740 (https://www.amazon.com/CORSAIR-CARBIDE-Cube-High-Airflow-CC-9011096-WW/dp/B01LHFLPB4/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1539454233&sr=1-1&keywords=air+740&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=9a66c070b6e3e18b28b6f9489c51f5e5&language=en_US), which is probably too big for your space at 20.08" high x 13.39" wide x 16.77" deep, versus 16.34" high x 13.07" wide x 18.03" deep for the 540.

Either could fit the Supreme Dream Machine, but if you're set on using liquid-cooled RTX 2080 Ti cards, things will get complicated. You can only mount a 360mm radiator to the front, so you might want to go with a 280mm radiator, but you'll still need space for your two 120mm GPU radiators. Honestly, this case is a little small for a setup like this. Sure, you could do it, but you'd have to set it up with virtually no intake air. Not a good idea when you have a massive amount of heat being thrown off.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on October 13, 2018, 12:05:35 PM
Well what else would you suggest if you were to update your recommendation?

I just remeasured and the exact dimensions of the space I have are 15.5" high, 17" wide, and 21" deep...

I have a budget of $10k or even more, and I want the best possible machine I can get by this December that will fit into that space...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on October 13, 2018, 03:09:19 PM
Other than the Air 540 on its side? You won't find any other mainstream ATX case that can come close to handling extreme liquid cooling gear that will fit in the dimensions of that cabinet. But there is a case from little-known brand Anidees that will potentially fit in your space in a standard vertical position if you take the feet off: the Anidees AI Crystal Cube (http://www.anrdoezrs.net/links/7120282/type/dlg/https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7TD6UN8789). I can't vouch for the cooling capability, but it has space for a 280mm radiator up top, a 120mm radiator in the rear, and then you'd still have to mount a 120mm radiator in the front. The layout is identical to the Air 540, but it's smaller and has four smaller intake fans, rather than two larger ones. And while the glass looks really nice, the airflow will be worse, which is not what you're going for.

I'd  stick with the 540.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on October 14, 2018, 12:15:57 AM
Purchased a 540...the build has officially begun!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on October 23, 2018, 11:39:16 PM
I got my 540!!!

This marks the first step in my long talked about dream machine becoming a reality...

Do you expect the SDM build is going to change at all between now and the end of the year? Are there certain things that definitely won't change that I could start ordering now? I do kind of want to hold out for some liquid cooled GPUs, but not sure if I'll be able to order them and receive them before the end of the year...?

Quote
3. If you want to beyond the 1TB Optane and 2TB 970 Pro RAID in the current SDM, I assume it's for data and media, not apps. So extreme speed isn't required. I'd pop in a Samsung 860 Evo 4TB 2.5" drive. Sure, it's not PCIe, and it's not M.2, but you won't find 4TB drives with either of those features, and for bulk storage, you really don't need them.

Regarding memory, what if I want blazing fast for running games, and bulk for movies and tv shows? Can I get more than 4 TB? My 4 TB RAID isn't cutting it anymore...6 would be much better and give me a couple more years of archiving. :)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on October 24, 2018, 07:37:20 AM
Can you confirm that the Air 540 is going to fit in your space the way you want it to?

In terms of coming changes, there won't be anything significant. Intel is doing essentially a re-brand of its 7900 series CPUs to 9900 series, but they'll perform the same, and honestly probably won't arrive until late December or January. I wouldn't bother waiting for it.

You should segment your SSDs by usage. Don't buy 6TB of PCIe storage and save TV shows on it. Go with an Optane 905p (https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Optane-905P-960GB-XPoint/dp/B07CVNS851/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1540391590&sr=1-2&keywords=optane+905p&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=9362b6e9f56b0bce6488d45643c8e67d&language=en_US) drive for the OS and your most important apps, get the two 970 Pros (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BYHGNB5/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=3f89a8e50132ef08e38698d42310fc2a&language=en_US) for games, and use two or three 860 Evo 4TB 2.5" (https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-MZ-76E4T0E-Internal-Solid-State/dp/B07939TDBG/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1540391680&sr=1-2&keywords=860+Evo+4TB&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=8db54ba92c75a545828e0064fadae3f8&language=en_US) SATA drives for media, which you don't need to access at 3,000MB/s, trust me!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on October 24, 2018, 08:15:57 AM
I haven't opened the box...but the dimensions listed on Amazon did fit. Kind of want to keep everything sealed until build time. I will have to add rubber feet and a magnetic dust filter grill to the side that's turned towards the ground.

Will all of that storage fit in there with everything else?

I've heard optane is overrated...true or false?

Could you maybe posy here if you here any word about the liquid cooled 2010ti? Man that extra syllable in twenty really doesn't roll off the tongue as nicely as 1080ti did...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on October 24, 2018, 03:34:54 PM
I haven't opened the box...but the dimensions listed on Amazon did fit. Kind of want to keep everything sealed until build time. I will have to add rubber feet and a magnetic dust filter grill to the side that's turned towards the ground.

Will all of that storage fit in there with everything else?

I've heard optane is overrated...true or false?

Could you maybe posy here if you here any word about the liquid cooled 2010ti? Man that extra syllable in twenty really doesn't roll off the tongue as nicely as 1080ti did...

Optane over-rated? Nah, it's pretty impressive. Over-priced? Absolutely. You're paying about 3 times as much per GB for perhaps 25% greater performance in some applications. But you wanted the best, right?

Your case has plenty of space for 2.5" drives, so that's what I'd be looking at to increase storage capacity. You could get a 4TB plus a 2TB 860 Evo drive (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07864XY8B/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&th=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=7fb33546cd4b4c5b0c48173863a16b9a&language=en_US) for less than one Optane 960GB (https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Optane-905P-960GB-XPoint/dp/B07CVNS851/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1540420264&sr=8-1&keywords=optane+960gb&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=c5f31f25853db2535239223ea152a91e&language=en_US) drive... food for thought.

No info yet on liquid-cooled 2080 Ti cards. Even the air-cooled cards are unavailable at the moment. Funny how 20-80-ti doesn't sound quite as good as 10-80-ti. Hadn't said it out loud before, and sure enough, you're right about that!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on October 24, 2018, 03:44:10 PM
Yeah...I remember awhile back before you switched to the Optane recommendation for the SDM there was another super fast Solid State Drive you recommended. What is the best and biggest capacity SSD that is the step below Optane? The Evo?

To be clear I do want "the best" but that means "best for me"... I'm sure even something 25% less fast than Optane is going to be PLENTY fast and with the CPU and Ram I expect games are going to run blazing fast anyway correct? Honestly with current macbook pro being from 2011 and laggy as hell with my tabs open I'm sure ANY upgrade is going to be AMAZING, lol. If it saves me a few bucks so much the better.

Hm...so I can go ahead and start buying parts now, but I would really like to get the nicest GPU possible, and by possible I mean that I can purchase by Dec 31st and have delivered ready to install by the first week of January at the latest.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on October 24, 2018, 03:56:08 PM
Yeah...I remember awhile back before you switched to the Optane recommendation for the SDM there was another super fast Solid State Drive you recommended. What is the best and biggest capacity SSD that is the step below Optane? The Evo?

To be clear I do want "the best" but that means "best for me"... I'm sure even something 25% less fast than Optane is going to be PLENTY fast and with the CPU and Ram I expect games are going to run blazing fast anyway correct? Honestly with current macbook pro being from 2011 and laggy as hell with my tabs open I'm sure ANY upgrade is going to be AMAZING, lol. If it saves me a few bucks so much the better.

Hm...so I can go ahead and start buying parts now, but I would really like to get the nicest GPU possible, and by possible I mean that I can purchase by Dec 31st and have delivered ready to install by the first week of January at the latest.

You can start with a couple of 970 Pro 1TB (https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-970-PRO-Internal-MZ-V7P1T0BW/dp/B07BYHGNB5/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1540421432&sr=1-1&keywords=970+Pro+1TB&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=27d67b22e6313c5cb2c1e8a902070eab&language=en_US) drives. These are just one step below Optane, for 1/3 the cost. They are awesome. Optane is for bragging rights, the 970 Pros are all business. If I were personally buying an SSD today with my own money, it's absolutely the only one I'd buy. Happen to be running a 950 Pro at the moment, and don't quite need to upgrade yet.

No rush on the GPUs, since you can't buy anything but the Founders Edition 2080 Ti at the moment. At this rate, having your heart set on a liquid-cooled model by Dec. 31st may end in disappointment, but at least wait another month to see how things shake out.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on October 24, 2018, 06:27:46 PM
Do they come any larger than 1 TB?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on October 24, 2018, 10:04:39 PM
Do they come any larger than 1 TB?

The largest high-end drive today is 1TB. Last year, Samsung offered a 2TB version of its premium 960 Pro, but that's been discontinued. This year, Samsung is instead offering the mid-range 970 Evo in a 2TB model (https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-970-EVO-2TB-MZ-V7E2T0BW/dp/B07C8Y31G1/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1540443750&sr=8-1&keywords=970+evo+2tb&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=55491cc68f358a8d62788c2aadfadeca&language=en_US). It's still blazing fast, and going with a single 970 Evo 1TB and a couple of 970 Evo 2TB models would be a very nice setup. Then load up on 2.5" SATA drives for bulk storage.

If that's not good enough for you, you'll have to wait until next year to see if 4TB PCIe SSDs arrive. ;)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on October 24, 2018, 10:08:35 PM
So one 1 TB drive, two 2 TB drives, and then how many 4 or 6 TB bulk drives do you think will fit with everything else stuffed into my 540 case?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on October 24, 2018, 10:21:47 PM
Quote from: TekHed link=topic=382.msg6413#msg6413  date=1540444115
So one 1 TB drive, two 2 TB drives, and then how many 4 or 6 TB bulk drives do you think will fit with everything else stuffed into my 540 case?

There are mounts for up to six 2.5" drives in this case. If a large proportion of your data is actually just media (i.e., ripped movies/TV shows), you may want to consider getting an 8TB hard drive (https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-IronWolf-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST8000VN0022/dp/B01M1BUBSO/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1540444767&sr=1-5&keywords=8tb+hard+drive&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=6e3ea68abbefafba07c1abdf325d2dc3&language=en_US). Obviously it's going to be slow, but if you're just serving up media, it's certainly fast enough. Buying that much SSD capacity just for media is simply not cost effective.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on October 24, 2018, 10:24:40 PM
Hm. SSD is more secure though? Can I fit 2 8 TB and Raid them?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on October 25, 2018, 08:14:46 AM
Hm. SSD is more secure though? Can I fit 2 8 TB and Raid them?

High-end SSDs can do hardware encryption. Don't think that's possible on hard drives, but honestly, I don't follow the market.

You can raid two hard 8TB drives, just like any hard drives.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on October 25, 2018, 09:28:34 AM
I didn't mean encryption sorry, I meant leas prone to failure and data loss. Will two 8 tb fit inside?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on October 25, 2018, 11:20:22 AM
I didn't mean encryption sorry, I meant leas prone to failure and data loss. Will two 8 tb fit inside?

Here are the case specs from Corsair:

Case Drive Bays:
(x2) 5.25in
(x4) 2.5in
(x2) Combo 3.5in/2.5in

You can fit up to two 8GB 3.5" drives.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on October 25, 2018, 11:26:29 AM
Hm.

OK awesome. Thanks for your help. I'll make a final part/price list.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 02, 2018, 10:25:10 AM
Ok here is the list of parts needed...what are the chances I can find good deals on these either today (Black Friday) or Cyber-Monday? Or are these too high end to see sales?

i9-7980XE
Asus ROG Rampage VI Extreme
NV Link Bridge
GPUs...pending
Corsair 8x8 GB Ram
1 970 Evo 1 TB SSDs
2x 970 Pro 2 TB
2x 8 TB Bulk Storage (RAID capable)
Corsair AX1600i Power Supply
Thermaltake's Floe 360 Cooler
Windows 10 Pro Flash Drive


I already have my case as mentioned.

For keyboard I am looking at wireless, what do you think of this guy? (Mind you I game from my couch and almost never play MP so will likely prefer a PS4 or XBox controller for most games)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077ZX9KJ7/?coliid=I1KUU605OQE19L&colid=3XQ1S4PBTSE7&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078218YBY/ref=as_li_ss_tl?&imprToken=Oeo0V9H7a0JBN-aekgllUg&slotNum=0&coliid=I1KUU605OQE19L&colid=3XQ1S4PBTSE7&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=5d5e92ca11bd00514c3acac4f958b99f&language=en_US)

I will take your rec for the Logitech G903 mouse.

And I still have my 65" LG OLED B7 from 2017...the near blacks are still annoyingly muddy/pixelated in upscaled 1080p videos and I have some light burn in at the top, but will consider upgrading to a QLED next year...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 02, 2018, 10:53:30 AM
I think the Corsair K63 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078218YBY/ref=as_li_ss_tl?&imprToken=Oeo0V9H7a0JBN-aekgllUg&slotNum=0&coliid=I1KUU605OQE19L&colid=3XQ1S4PBTSE7&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=5d5e92ca11bd00514c3acac4f958b99f&language=en_US) is a good choice for a couch PC. Basically nothing else like it (the wired lapboards are ridiculous - not at all conducive for use in a TV room).

In terms of Black Friday deals, based on my having reported on BF deals for the past five years, I can tell you that you're unlikely to find discounts on any of that gear except for the SSDs, which will likely be around 20% off. Since it's just 3 weeks away, it's probably worth waiting on that, but the rest of that stuff is extremely low volume - it doesn't make sense for manufacturers to mark it down (or for retailers to advertise the markdowns), as it takes away valuable "print" space for deals that will actually move in number. The stuff Corsair will markdown will be mainstream 16GB RAM kits, cases, power supplies, and coolers, while Thermaltake will probably discount some of its cases and mid-range coolers as well. For a recap on what was on sale last year, see my 2017 report here (https://techbuyersguru.com/black-friday-2017-recap).
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 02, 2018, 11:17:23 AM
Ok cool. So you'd recommend buying everything save for the SSDs now? What about CyberMonday deals?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 02, 2018, 12:10:43 PM
Ok cool. So you'd recommend buying everything save for the SSDs now? What about CyberMonday deals?

Cyber Monday isn't really distinct from BF anymore, other than a few very select deals. And it's nothing you can predict - you may end up paying more on CM than on BF, so it's a roll of the dice. The very best stuff is sold out by then anyway.

So yes, you can go ahead and get everything but the SSDs, and maybe hold off on the Corsair K63, as that might be on sale too (it's low volume, but Corsair discounts most of its stuff). Don't forget, you can support the forum by using the product links in the SDM Buyer's Guide (https://techbuyersguru.com/supreme-dream-machine-pc-build).

By the way, just to be completely upfront with you, Intel has announced a follow-up to the 7980XE, but given the disastrous rollout of the 9900K (which has yet to ship a month after release), you can be sure the Core i9-9980XE (https://ark.intel.com/products/189126/Intel-Core-i9-9980XE-Extreme-Edition-Processor-24-75M-Cache-up-to-4-50-GHz-) won't actually ship in quantity until Q1'19. Feel free to wait a few weeks on it to see if it actually materializes, but keep in mind that it's actually just a 7980XE that's been factory overclocked a few 100MHz, so you're not missing out on anything with the 7980XE.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 02, 2018, 03:15:36 PM
I'd love to support the site!

Only...those are all Amazon links? I might be able to find the parts at other sites for less, no? Newegg perhaps? I might even get cashback on electronics from my credit card at certain stores...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 02, 2018, 09:07:56 PM
I'd love to support the site!

Only...those are all Amazon links? I might be able to find the parts at other sites for less, no? Newegg perhaps? I might even get cashback on electronics from my credit card at certain stores...

The guide uses all Amazon links. If you'd like to buy something from Newegg and support the site, you can simply use this link to the Newegg homepage (http://www.anrdoezrs.net/links/7120282/type/dlg/https://www.newegg.com/). My impression is that when Newegg was bought out by a Chinese company, it stopped trying to offer lower prices than other retailers. In most cases, it is more expensive than Amazon. Also note that while Newegg may give cashback through certain credit cards, Amazon has never offered cashback for electronics or PC-related products.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 03, 2018, 01:47:38 PM
Well it would be nice to get cashback...my card gives me 5% back on selected merchants. That might be $500. Would have to crunch the numbers to find where the best price is...

 (https://i.postimg.cc/kgrfp6vn/Screen-Shot-2018-11-03-at-1-40-50-PM.png)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 04, 2018, 03:20:19 AM
Instead of using internal 3.5 drives for bulk media storage I'm considering going with an external drive assembly. I like the idea that if heaven forbid there was ever an earthquake or fire I could grab my archives and run in a way I couldn't if they are all inside a bulky desktop.

What do you think of these?

https://www.amazon.com/OWC-Mercury-Elite-Performance-Enclosure/dp/B01MU2E0UZ/ref=sr_1_14?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1541329781&sr=1-14&keywords=raid%2Bexternal%2B8tb%2Bdrive&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/OWC-Mercury-Elite-Performance-Enclosure/dp/B01MU2E0UZ/ref=as_li_ss_tl?&imprToken=MAoGRnKi8uBIMwcrAmz5-g&slotNum=1&s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1541329781&sr=1-14&keywords=raid+external+8tb+drive&th=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=6ed43cf5a63f923e4c600b75437fb5ca&language=en_US)

https://www.amazon.com/OWC-ThunderBay-4-Bay-External-Drive/dp/B013TQMDOC/ref=sr_1_20?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1541329781&sr=1-20&keywords=raid+external+8tb+drive (https://www.amazon.com/OWC-ThunderBay-4-Bay-External-Drive/dp/B013TQMDOC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?&imprToken=MAoGRnKi8uBIMwcrAmz5-g&slotNum=2&s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1541329781&sr=1-20&keywords=raid+external+8tb+drive&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=d2bcc4edbea0ec58ca4f1f847229bc9b&language=en_US)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DW49WD2/ref=twister_B07K25QDQ9?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DW49WD2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?&imprToken=MAoGRnKi8uBIMwcrAmz5-g&slotNum=3&_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=9096bf854ba08c458b4d964bdb29bce5&language=en_US)

https://www.amazon.com/Book-Desktop-External-Drive-WDBFBE0080JBK-NESN/dp/B074R2HJ6G/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1541329781&sr=1-4&keywords=raid+external+8tb+drive (https://www.amazon.com/Book-Desktop-External-Drive-WDBFBE0080JBK-NESN/dp/B074R2HJ6G/ref=as_li_ss_tl?&imprToken=MAoGRnKi8uBIMwcrAmz5-g&slotNum=4&s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1541329781&sr=1-4&keywords=raid+external+8tb+drive&th=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=12034ca5b7fa2f75e0ac225a01400405&language=en_US)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 04, 2018, 09:01:32 AM
Not a bad idea if you're using the hard drives as backup or media only.

Critical point: all but the WD drive have Thunderbolt 2 connections, which are an obsolete Mac-only interface. You want to be using USB Type-C with your external drives, and the WD provides that. Also, OWC caters specifically to Mac users, so I'd skip OWC anyway - they might not even have Windows software, and they sell at a big premium, with styling to match Mac computers.

So, in short, I'd recommend the WD drive (https://www.amazon.com/Book-Desktop-External-Drive-WDBFBE0080JBK-NESN/dp/B074R2HJ6G/ref=as_li_ss_tl?&imprToken=MAoGRnKi8uBIMwcrAmz5-g&slotNum=4&s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1541329781&sr=1-4&keywords=raid+external+8tb+drive&th=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=12034ca5b7fa2f75e0ac225a01400405&language=en_US). It's the least expensive because it's not adding a "Mac" tax.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 04, 2018, 11:39:01 AM
Yeah for movies, shows, my own video production content for work, and my vast storehouse of tabletop RPG images...!

Hm. Not in love with the WD form factor. Do you know of something equivalent that might be a bit more rugged or designed with portability in mind (in case I ever need to grab and go)? If not I added the WD to my wish list from your link.  ;)

Edit: Can you confirm that this (https://www.amazon.com/Book-Desktop-External-Drive-WDBFBE0080JBK-NESN/dp/B074R2HJ6G/ref=as_at/?creativeASIN=B074R2HJ6G&imprToken=MAoGRnKi8uBIMwcrAmz5-g&slotNum=4&s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1541329781&sr=1-4&keywords=raid%2Bexternal%2B8tb%2Bdrive&th=1&linkCode=w61&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=12034ca5b7fa2f75e0ac225a01400405&language=en_USl) means it is two 8 tb in the housing, or does it mean two 4 TB in the housing. The wording on these always confuses me.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 04, 2018, 07:03:41 PM
Yeah for movies, shows, my own video production content for work, and my vast storehouse of tabletop RPG images...!

Hm. Not in love with the WD form factor. Do you know of something equivalent that might be a bit more rugged or designed with portability in mind (in case I ever need to grab and go)? If not I added the WD to my wish list from your link.  ;)

Edit: Can you confirm that this (https://www.amazon.com/Book-Desktop-External-Drive-WDBFBE0080JBK-NESN/dp/B074R2HJ6G/ref=as_at/?creativeASIN=B074R2HJ6G&imprToken=MAoGRnKi8uBIMwcrAmz5-g&slotNum=4&s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1541329781&sr=1-4&keywords=raid%2Bexternal%2B8tb%2Bdrive&th=1&linkCode=w61&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=12034ca5b7fa2f75e0ac225a01400405&language=en_USl) means it is two 8 tb in the housing, or does it mean two 4 TB in the housing. The wording on these always confuses me.

Totally agreed, it's super-confusing, but the 8TB RAID drive has dual 4TB drives. Basically, you're getting the advantage of RAID options, but it comes at a huge premium.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 04, 2018, 08:51:59 PM
Ok, well that's what I already have...so I'll need to step it up to the 16 TB...





edit: screw it...only $60 more for the 20 TB (https://www.amazon.com/20TB-Desktop-External-Drive-WDBFBE0200JBK-NESN/dp/B074R34DD3/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1541394549&sr=1-1&keywords=wd+20tb&th=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=35ece040a28e73981042f7c5c219243d&language=en_US)...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 04, 2018, 09:11:42 PM
Ok, well that's what I already have...so I'll need to step it up to the 16 TB...





edit: screw it...only $60 more for the 20 TB (https://www.amazon.com/20TB-Desktop-External-Drive-WDBFBE0200JBK-NESN/dp/B074R34DD3/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1541394549&sr=1-1&keywords=wd+20tb&th=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=35ece040a28e73981042f7c5c219243d&language=en_US)...

Now that's the spirit! This actually gets you well above what you can do with a single drive, allowing the RAID0 setup to really stretch its legs. Huge speed, huge capacity.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 05, 2018, 08:23:38 AM
Not as fast as an ssd though. Fast enough for movies. So the os goes on the 1 tb ssd. What else? Should I store my games on the two 2 tb evo pros?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 05, 2018, 11:50:43 AM
Not as fast as an ssd though. Fast enough for movies. So the os goes on the 1 tb ssd. What else? Should I store my games on the two 2 tb evo pros?

Put your important apps on the 1TB OS drive, then whatever space is left over use for the most-used games. Honestly, though, games don't get much of a boost from ultra-fast SSDs. They work almost as well on budget models.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 05, 2018, 11:59:32 AM
I've been living with a 500 gb macbook for the last 8 years...1 TB is going to be absolutely spacious!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 14, 2018, 01:18:12 AM
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/63064/evga-unveils-new-water-cooled-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-cards/index.html
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 14, 2018, 08:02:47 AM
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/63064/evga-unveils-new-water-cooled-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-cards/index.html

Nice find. We all knew they were coming, it was just a matter of time. But I still wouldn't count on these being available before the end of the year. They aren't even listed on EVGA's site yet (those look like leaked marketing photos), and for the matter, not a single EVGA RTX 2080 Ti has been available since "launch" on September 27th.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 15, 2018, 05:58:55 PM
https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/11/15/nvidia-admits-some-rtx-2080-ti-boards-are-defective

 :o
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 16, 2018, 02:44:20 PM
Nvidia is not firing on all cylinders. They got cocky.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 16, 2018, 03:38:23 PM
So...what does this bode for my build?

Do you think the EVGA liquid cooled ones will end up ok or is this a situation where (yet again) I sit tight and wait for the next iterative model...?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 16, 2018, 08:07:54 PM
So...what does this bode for my build?

Do you think the EVGA liquid cooled ones will end up ok or is this a situation where (yet again) I sit tight and wait for the next iterative model...?

The Hybrid will be fine when it arrives, but there's almost no chance they'll be here before Christmas, and New Years is looking doubtful too.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 16, 2018, 09:43:37 PM
That's probably ok.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 17, 2018, 11:40:26 AM
Question...

What if I get everything but the cards now. Do I run the risk of any of the other components being obsolete or incompatible by the time the FTW models come out?

On a related note you'd think these companies would want to make sure to release their products before Christmas!!!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 17, 2018, 03:14:01 PM
Question...

What if I get everything but the cards now. Do I run the risk of any of the other components being obsolete or incompatible by the time the FTW models come out?

On a related note you'd think these companies would want to make sure to release their products before Christmas!!!

You could hold off on the CPU for now and see if the Core i9-9980XE arrives by the time you want to order your GPUs. It's not dramatically better than the 7980XE, essentially just a factory overclocked model with about 100MHz higher clockspeed headroom. Nothing else is going to be outdated in the least bit. Note that the SSDs may be on sale next week, which would be a good time to get them.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 17, 2018, 04:30:06 PM
Yeah but how much difference does 100 mhz really make, and couldn't I over clock it myself?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 18, 2018, 10:50:48 AM
Yeah but how much difference does 100 mhz really make, and couldn't I over clock it myself?

The 9980XE will likely overclock 100MHz higher ultimately, but the chips are identical at the same clockspeed.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 19, 2018, 01:38:18 AM
Can you explain in simple terms what the difference is between these 3 announced models?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 19, 2018, 07:59:05 AM
Can you explain in simple terms what the difference is between these 3 announced models?

Did you mean to add a link? I'm not sure what 3 models you're referring to.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 19, 2018, 08:43:43 AM
D'oh!

https://wccftech.com/evga-geforce-rtx-20-series-ftw3-hybrid-hydro-copper-custom-graphics-cards/
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 19, 2018, 09:39:49 AM
D'oh!

https://wccftech.com/evga-geforce-rtx-20-series-ftw3-hybrid-hydro-copper-custom-graphics-cards/

The Hydro Copper is for custom liquid cooling loops. As TBG doesn't cover that market, you'd have to research it elsewhere if you wanted to use that card.

The Hybrid XC and Ultra both use closed liquid cooling loops, but the Ultra has a larger shroud and presumably a larger heatsink underneath. It's unlikely that it will actually lead to higher performance, as the Hybrid XC will already be so cool that the GPU should run at maximum clocks.

But again, I doubt we're going to see these this year. I'm not even sure those concept drawings were created by EVGA. They may be "fan-made art".
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 19, 2018, 10:20:27 AM
Ok so the Hybrid is the one I would want then.

But no, apparently these were legit images released by EVGA:

https://hothardware.com/news/evga-geforce-rtx-lineup-pictured-stylish-hydro-copper-ftw3
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 19, 2018, 10:50:20 AM
Ok so the Hybrid is the one I would want then.

But no, apparently these were legit images released by EVGA:

https://hothardware.com/news/evga-geforce-rtx-lineup-pictured-stylish-hydro-copper-ftw3

Good find, but those were released in early September, and were likely just concept drawings. Again, the product hasn't actually been released.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 19, 2018, 10:53:50 AM
True but we know they are official!

I still don't understand why they would miss the 2018 shopping season.  :o
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 19, 2018, 11:03:04 AM
True but we know they are official!

I still don't understand why they would miss the 2018 shopping season.  :o

It's really not up to them. This has everything to do with Nvidia failing to successfully launch the 2080 Ti. I doubt EVGA has received even 1,000 units of the GPU since September, and they surely wouldn't spin up an assembly line for niche Hybrid cards. Anything EVGA gets will be going to mass-market air-cooled cards.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 19, 2018, 11:07:10 AM
I saw a comment somewhere to the effect of how much it sucks that AMD just flat out refuses to compete with Nvidia. If they'd put some teeth in into it Nvidia would be forced to get their shit together. Consumers would be better served.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 23, 2018, 03:53:42 AM
OooohKAY!

Time to pull the trigger here as much as possible.

I didn't see an Amazon Link to the NVLink bridge and it's not on the page the hyperlink on the build page goes to. The one on Amazon is the EVGA model...sufficient?

Part of me just wants to say screw it and get the Optane just to see just how snappy and responsive it is after rereading your description of it. And it's close to a TB which is what I was going to get for my main drive anyway with the  970 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BYHGNB5/?coliid=I26RTFQ69XC2WL&colid=3XQ1S4PBTSE7&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it)...though I don't understand really what the difference is between that 970 and the 970 Pro (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C8Y31G1/?coliid=I3RAA1N51R3RCP&colid=3XQ1S4PBTSE7&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it)...the pro comes in a 2 TB model but isn't as good/fast as the 1 TB model?

You mentioned this build/board can have up to 6 drives. Maybe go Optane for the primary then 5 more of the 1 TB, or 2 TB? I'm not sure how many hard drives I actually need... ?

I'm actually kind of paranoid now about clicking on or buying the wrong thing. I did compare Amazon to New Egg and B&H both of which seemed to be either the same or more expensive than Amazon or they just didn't have the same stuff.

...also, addendum...

I have been reading some things that suggest going with an air cooler would be much quieter, more reliable...and also safer to use in such an expensive rig. How big is the risk with liquid cooled systems that they might leak and just destroy everything? How high maintenance are they?

Also, for the quiet factor...is the liquid just going to be ridiculous? I was playing God of War on my PS$ and sometimes the fan in the system was blowing so loud I could hear it even with the volume of the surround system up, and it was distracting and immersion breaking especially in quieter scenes.

Obviously we want a cool system for keeping everything safe and being able to max performance, but is there a sweet spot between cool and quiet I can hit and if so what would you recommend? If you post your affiliate links I will use them. :)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 23, 2018, 07:23:15 AM
Yes, time to buy!

Go for the EVGA 4-slot NV-Link bridge (https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-Bridge-Spacing-100-2W-0029-LR/dp/B07HZD8P2R/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1542986158&sr=8-1&keywords=evga+nvlink&th=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=14ffe227097c6c5f030b52294d6e398b&language=en_US). Thanks for pointing out that Nvidia (in its great wisdom) had pulled its own bridge off its website. Goes to show how much Nvidia wants to support SLI...

The Optane 905p 960GB (https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Optane-905P-960GB-XPoint/dp/B07CVNS851/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1542986352&sr=1-1&keywords=optane+905p&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=8aa599385d52535806d5c2eda863907f&language=en_US) has dropped in price nearly $200 since we last discussed it, so I say go for it if you want the ultimate PC.

The Samsung 970 Pro (https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-970-PRO-512GB-MZ-V7P512BW/dp/B07BYHGNB5/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1542986436&sr=1-3&keywords=970+Pro&th=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=252d8b43f2ed99cbd48ece95929f3cf4&language=en_US) is faster and more consistent than the 970 Evo. I know the 970 Evo's 2GB version (https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-970-EVO-2TB-MZ-V7E2T0BW/dp/B07C8Y31G1/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1542986485&sr=1-1&keywords=970+evo+2tb&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=088d760c9151851c9d8af670d6b02e1a&language=en_US) is tempting, but it is definitely not as fast. I'd stick with the plan of dual 970 Pro 1TB drives, then a SATA drive for anything else you need. I really doubt you have over 3TB of applications! ;)

And no, you should not use an air cooler in this rig. Anything you read about it being "safer" and "quieter" was written a long time ago or just hasn't kept up. There is no maintenance, and the cooler listed in the guide is very quiet.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 23, 2018, 07:34:52 AM
Uh oh, the ROG Extreme motherboard is no longer available. I'm going to publish a November version of the SDM just for you! Hold your "buy button" until you see it!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 23, 2018, 09:11:06 AM
Yes, time to buy!

Go for the EVGA 4-slot NV-Link bridge (https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-Bridge-Spacing-100-2W-0029-LR/dp/B07HZD8P2R/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1542986158&sr=8-1&keywords=evga+nvlink&th=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=14ffe227097c6c5f030b52294d6e398b&language=en_US). Thanks for pointing out that Nvidia (in its great wisdom) had pulled its own bridge off its website. Goes to show how much Nvidia wants to support SLI...

The Optane 905p 960GB (https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Optane-905P-960GB-XPoint/dp/B07CVNS851/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1542986352&sr=1-1&keywords=optane+905p&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=8aa599385d52535806d5c2eda863907f&language=en_US) has dropped in price nearly $200 since we last discussed it, so I say go for it if you want the ultimate PC.

The Samsung 970 Pro (https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-970-PRO-512GB-MZ-V7P512BW/dp/B07BYHGNB5/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1542986436&sr=1-3&keywords=970+Pro&th=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=252d8b43f2ed99cbd48ece95929f3cf4&language=en_US) is faster and more consistent than the 970 Evo. I know the 970 Evo's 2GB version (https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-970-EVO-2TB-MZ-V7E2T0BW/dp/B07C8Y31G1/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1542986485&sr=1-1&keywords=970+evo+2tb&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=088d760c9151851c9d8af670d6b02e1a&language=en_US) is tempting, but it is definitely not as fast. I'd stick with the plan of dual 970 Pro 1TB drives, then a SATA drive for anything else you need. I really doubt you have over 3TB of applications! ;)

And no, you should not use an air cooler in this rig. Anything you read about it being "safer" and "quieter" was written a long time ago or just hasn't kept up. There is no maintenance, and the cooler listed in the guide is very quiet.

OK, my friend, here you go: the November 2018 Supreme Dream Machine (https://techbuyersguru.com/supreme-dream-machine-pc-build), custom-designed for you! I actually had to update a lot of the specs due to Asus discontinuing its ROG Extreme board, including the video cards and NV-Link bridge, and while I was at it, I added a fourth SSD, based on your input!

Any questions, let me know!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 23, 2018, 12:36:34 PM
Awesome man, thanks!

Loading up the shopping cart now...

I'm still debating if I really really want to use the Optane for primary. Is it really going to be that noticeable a difference between that and the step down to the 970? Or is this like Olympic sprinting where 1st place takes it by milliseconds? I mean I know that factually it runs blazingly faster, but how noticeable is it to us mere humans? OS runs applications and switching between windows and such so practically speaking it a difference in milliseconds or nanoseconds in terms of response time for the end user?

I'm also strongly considering biting the bullet and just buying the 2080tis you listed in the build. How much am I cheating myself by not being patient and waiting for the Hybrid EVGAs? And again here I know that this whole thing is crazy overkill/futureproofed...most of the games in my backlog like the Witcher 3 or Doom or Titanfall 2 are going to be child's play for this build and would be even if I just got 1080 tis instead. If I did decide to hold out will that effect the slot configuration at all?

Please lmk asap, so I can make my final decisions and click "purchase now"!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 23, 2018, 12:50:41 PM
Awesome man, thanks!

Loading up the shopping cart now...

I'm still debating if I really really want to use the Optane for primary. Is it really going to be that noticeable a difference between that and the step down to the 970? Or is this like Olympic sprinting where 1st place takes it by milliseconds? I mean I know that factually it runs blazingly faster, but how noticeable is it to us mere humans? OS runs applications and switching between windows and such so practically speaking it a difference in milliseconds or nanoseconds in terms of response time for the end user?

I'm also strongly considering biting the bullet and just buying the 2080tis you listed in the build. How much am I cheating myself by not being patient and waiting for the Hybrid EVGAs? And again here I know that this whole thing is crazy overkill/futureproofed...most of the games in my backlog like the Witcher 3 or Doom or Titanfall 2 are going to be child's play for this build and would be even if I just got 1080 tis instead. If I did decide to hold out will that effect the slot configuration at all?

Please lmk asap, so I can make my final decisions and click "purchase now"!

OK, to be honest, the Optane is so bleeding-edge that the price is a bit over the top. Will you notice a difference between it and the 970 Pro? Hard to say, but it is faster, especially for OS operations. That's because its random read/write performance is twice as fast as the 970 Pro's. But it's actually slower for sequential read/writes that people are most familiar with (because that's how SSDs are marketed). So I wouldn't use it to transfer larger files back and forth, but for an OS, yes, it's faster. That being said, finding a place where random read/write is the sole bottleneck in typical operations is going to be pretty hard, so if you wanted to trim the budget, you'd be fine with the 970 Pros. But on a cautionary note, I don't recommend using a RAID0 configuration for OS use. So maybe go with one 970 Pro for the OS and two 970 Evos in RAID0 to get you up to that 5TB of storage in the current SDM build. Here are the links:

Samsung 970 Pro 1TB (https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-970-PRO-Internal-MZ-V7P1T0BW/dp/B07BYHGNB5/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1543005875&sr=8-2&keywords=Samsung+970+Pro+1TB&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=cb9176cc5959e30726dd81997ea36c0d&language=en_US)
Samsung 970 Evo 2TB (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C8Y31G1/ref=as_li_ss_tl?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=9d1208c633ab0ce08e328e12f07d780c&language=en_US)

For just under $1,500, you're matching the capacity of the SDM build, which has $2,500 in storage, and the performance difference will be minimal.

As for the 2080 Ti cards, the chances of getting those hybrids this year is looking pretty bad. Consider that it's essentially impossible to buy ANY 2080 Ti right now, even ones that have been released for two months. That PNY 2080 Ti is a really special find - it's only been available for order one other day this month. I'd grab it now if you want to build this system before January.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 23, 2018, 12:59:38 PM
Again...I'm not concerned with the build being *finished* before January. I have my Razer Stealth now for productivity and more games on my PS4 than I have time for (I bought Spiderman the day it came out in September and have only played it about 3 hours since). So...with THAT in mind, is it worth it to wait until next year for the EVGA hybrids and will that be a big step up? Will that change the slots? This is what I need to know.

As for the storage...why not 1 Pro for OS and 4 more pros in RAID? Is there a reason you recommend stepping down to the Evos for other drives? Why not just get all of/more of the Pros?

Oh and for the mouse I think I can skip the charging pad? It's a cool idea but I'll be gaming from a lapboard with the wireless Corsair K63 on my couch so the wired charging mousepad kind of defeats the point of all that...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 23, 2018, 01:07:32 PM
Again...I'm not concerned with the build being *finished* before January. I have my Razer Stealth now for productivity and more games on my PS4 than I have time for (I bought Spiderman the day it came out in September and have only played it about 3 hours since). So...with THAT in mind, is it worth it to wait until next year for the EVGA hybrids and will that be a big step up? Will that change the slots? This is what I need to know.

As for the storage...why not 1 Pro for OS and 4 more pros in RAID? Is there a reason you recommend stepping down to the Evos for other drives? Why not just get all of/more of the Pros?

Oh and for the mouse I think I can skip the charging pad? It's a cool idea but I'll be gaming from a lapboard with the wireless Corsair K63 on my couch so the wired charging mousepad kind of defeats the point of all that...

With the 2080 Ti Hybrids being unreleased, I really can't comment on whether they'll fit in this build. Will they be dual-slot like previous versions? Probably, but maybe not. Perhaps EVGA is still in the process of refining the design. And triple-slot cards will not allow the use of Optane. So it does matter.

If you've decided against Optane based on what I previously noted, then slot spacing doesn't really matter, and yes, the unreleased Hybrids will probably boost a bit higher than the PNY models. They'll also be an absolute bear to install in the compact case you're using. So everything's a tradeoff. I'm not much for waiting for unreleased products that may never come to the market, because I've seen enough vaporware in my time. But that's just me.

You can't fit more than 3 PCIe-based SSDs in this build. You could potentially use PCIe card adapters, but then you start running into problems with available slots, so I just wouldn't bother with that. It's getting too complicated - I'm not even sure you can RAID five 970 Pros.

I'd either go with the setup in the current SDM, or I'd step down to one 970 Pro 1TB on OS and two 970 Evo 2TB in RAID0 on data. It's about getting enough fast storage into this system. Sure, you could get three 970 Pro 1TB drives, but now you're back down to 3TB of total PCIe storage.

And yes, you can skip the charging mousepad - the mouse can charge via microUSB.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 23, 2018, 01:42:23 PM
3 TB is plenty for me I think for games. Remember all of my media is going to be on the WD 10 TB RAID 1 external.  ;D

I doubt the EVGA hybrids will be vaporware. Like HIGHLY doubt. But good point on the case.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 23, 2018, 01:51:47 PM
3 TB is plenty for me I think for games. Remember all of my media is going to be on the WD 10 TB RAID 1 external.  ;D

I doubt the EVGA hybrids will be vaporware. Like HIGHLY doubt. But good point on the case.

I forgot about that 10TB external RAID. In that case, I'd probably just get three 970 Pro 1TB (https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-970-PRO-Internal-MZ-V7P1T0BW/dp/B07BYHGNB5/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1543009512&sr=8-2&keywords=970+Pro+1TB&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=47a285bdc72ea4542ec4db29d781206d&language=en_US) drives. Keep one on OS duty, then RAID the other two for data. Remember, using RAID0 for your OS is a recipe for data loss.

EVGA has been pretty consistent with its Hybrids in the past. The 1080 Ti Hybrid came out two months after the 1080 Ti GPU was launched. If this were a normal GPU launch, we'd already be seeing the 2080 Ti Hybrid on the EVGA website. But EVGA hasn't had a single 2080 Ti in stock, like ever. There are a grand total of 16 reviews for EVGA-branded 2080 Ti cards on Newegg. I'd guess that this pretty much accounts for every 2080 Ti EVGA has sold in the US.

Here's what I would do if I were you: get one 2080 Ti air-cooled card now, get your system up and running, and buy a 2080 Ti Hybrid when it becomes available. Running an air-cooled card in the second GPU spot will lose you no performance. It's the top card that gets heat-soaked, and that's where you need the liquid cooling. This will also make your build infinitely easier, since there really isn't a good place for a third radiator (one for CPU, two for GPUs) in your Corsair Air 540 case. And you'll have your SDM up and running, rather than waiting on a GPU that probably will arrive some day, but would be clawing at your soul as you sat on an $8,000+ PC you couldn't boot until that day came!

With that said, I'd grab that PNY 2080 Ti (https://www.amazon.com/PNY-GeForce-Gaming-Overclocked-Graphics/dp/B07GJ7TV8L/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1543009791&sr=8-1&keywords=PNY+2080+Ti&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=517700f1464ec05208068459876338b0&language=en_US) at Amazon. Newegg  (http://www.anrdoezrs.net/links/7120282/type/dlg/https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133754)has it too, but it's $50 more.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 23, 2018, 02:05:09 PM
Oh.

Hm. I was just about to post that Amazon won't allow me to buy more than 1 Ti from the link on the build page. I'd like to support you so if you have another Amazon link for the same price I will use that. I see you posted a pricier Newegg link which I'm happy to use, but now I am considering your idea about waiting on a hybrid for the liquid cooler...

That kind of seems good BUT...remember with my case I'm going to have it on what would normally be the side so there won't be a "top" card like normal. Still good to wait for liquid cooled anyway?

Even so...for the games I'm going to be playing first one 2080 ti is already overkill...however I'm looking forward to Cyberpunk 2077...  8)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 23, 2018, 02:30:45 PM
Oh.

Hm. I was just about to post that Amazon won't allow me to buy more than 1 Ti from the link on the build page. I'd like to support you so if you have another Amazon link for the same price I will use that. I see you posted a pricier Newegg link which I'm happy to use, but now I am considering your idea about waiting on a hybrid for the liquid cooler...

That kind of seems good BUT...remember with my case I'm going to have it on what would normally be the side so there won't be a "top" card like normal. Still good to wait for liquid cooled anyway?

Even so...for the games I'm going to be playing first one 2080 ti is already overkill...however I'm looking forward to Cyberpunk 2077...  8)

Thanks for letting me know about that purchase limit on Amazon. What a pain!

But it's all for the best, as I think you really should wait on that Hybrid. Even with the case on its side, one card will run much hotter than the other, so it really helps. If the Hybrid does indeed make it to market, it will be the recommend model for the SDM.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 23, 2018, 02:46:38 PM
Ok...I will wait. And I can wait on the bridge then too.  :)

3 970 Pros is just a tiny bit more expensive than a single Optane so that really does seem the better option for my purposes. Given the snail-speed 2011 Macbook Pro I've been dealing with a 970 on the OS is going to be like a divine revelation!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 23, 2018, 02:53:27 PM
Ok...I will wait. And I can wait on the bridge then too.  :)

3 970 Pros is just a tiny bit more expensive than a single Optane so that really does seem the better option for my purposes. Given the snail-speed 2011 Macbook Pro I've been dealing with a 970 on the OS is going to be like a divine revelation!

Yes, 3TBs worth of 970 Pro does make a lot more sense than 1TB worth of Optane. But you can always dream, which is what the SDM is about!

Sure, wait on that NV Link bridge - it may go down in price over time anyway, so no reason to buy it today just to have it sit in the box.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 23, 2018, 05:43:05 PM
And it's done!!!

After shipping and over $500 in tax it came out to being just over $8k, with that Hybrid it will end up being around $9.5k including the case and peripherals. I'm going to hire a pro to put it all together for me rather than risk any issues so that will probably take the final price close to that 10k mark. Hope you get some nice kickbacks from your links...I really appreciate all your help and advice!

You know...I ALMOST said screw it and went for the Optane, because at this point what's another $800 (which would have been the difference after subtracting one of the 970 Pros)...but I didn't simply because I don't know how many slots the Hybrid will eventually take up.

This has been a few years in the making/saving.waiting/procrastinating.  :)

The case as you know isn't fancy like the usual SDM cases you showcase but I kind of like that it's going to be this stealthy compact cube in the corner.

Actually that's a good question...there will be my surround system sub but it's going to be 8 inches away with a cinderblock in between...is that enough distance?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 23, 2018, 10:32:22 PM
Congrats on finally bringing this system together. It has been a long time in the making, but I think it will have been worth the wait! I'd typically recommend that readers build their own system for the experience, but this is a fairly complicated build, and the CPU/motherboard combo alone costs more than most CPUs. That's where I'd be very, very patient if I were doing it myself - the socket pins can bend easily. I've done that on some cheap motherboards and it's trashed them. So you should still consider trying this on your own, but make sure you full understand how the CPU sits in the socket.

Regarding the speaker, if you're worried about electromagnetic interference, or the subwoofer's magnet causing data errors, you should be fine. The only thing that can really be affected by a large magnet as far as I know is a traditional hard drive, which itself uses magnets. Keep your external RAID as far as possible from the subwoofer and you should be fine.

And of course, thanks for using the affiliate links - that's a huge help to the forum and the site.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 23, 2018, 11:14:51 PM
Hm.

Well I did put computers together at a shop as a summer gig but that was a long time ago. So in theory I know how to insert the the CPU, and basically plug everything in, but that was a long time ago. Tech has come a long way and I've never done anything with liquid coolers or thermal paste, or overclocking...My handle here comes from a tabletop rpg, but ironically I'm not really that tech savvy if you couldn't tell, which is why I rely on experts such as yourself! ;)

Mainly I don't have a ton of extra time and I'm concerned I'll screw up the software installation and integration of all the components and getting them all talking well, overclocking etc.. But yeah...also nerve wracking to have my first build in 20 years be on masterwork equipment! How long would it take do you think for a first time person to put it all together? What might be best for me is to find someone I know who has a lot of experience to kind of walk through it with me...

And yeah...my current external RAID drives are sitting on a wooden shelf to the upper right of the woofer, so apparently that hasn't been an issue!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on November 24, 2018, 02:15:56 PM
Hm.

Well I did put computers together at a shop as a summer gig but that was a long time ago. So in theory I know how to insert the the CPU, and basically plug everything in, but that was a long time ago. Tech has come a long way and I've never done anything with liquid coolers or thermal paste, or overclocking...My handle here comes from a tabletop rpg, but ironically I'm not really that tech savvy if you couldn't tell, which is why I rely on experts such as yourself! ;)

Mainly I don't have a ton of extra time and I'm concerned I'll screw up the software installation and integration of all the components and getting them all talking well, overclocking etc.. But yeah...also nerve wracking to have my first build in 20 years be on masterwork equipment! How long would it take do you think for a first time person to put it all together? What might be best for me is to find someone I know who has a lot of experience to kind of walk through it with me...

And yeah...my current external RAID drives are sitting on a wooden shelf to the upper right of the woofer, so apparently that hasn't been an issue!

A build like this would probably take about two hours, once you've unpacked all the gear (which itself will take some time, but not a lot of concentration). You could probably handle it if you built PCs in the past, even many years ago. It's mostly screw in this, plug in that, insert this, and power on. The most time-consuming part will probably be tidying up cables and wires, assuming you'd like this build to look as fancy as it is!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on November 24, 2018, 03:15:41 PM
Oh yes, I need help with the cable management
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on December 11, 2018, 11:54:46 AM
FYI, EVGA has released its Hybrid cooler kit for the reference 2070/2080 (https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=400-HY-1184-B1). Note that this usually precedes the release of a factory-built Hybrid card by about a month, so I'm guessing early January for that (the 2070/2080 Hybrid). The 2080 Ti Hybrid cooler is not yet available, but has been listed for sale (https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=400-HY-1384-B1). That means we're at least a month out from having a factory-built 2080 Ti Hybrid. Even MSI's Sea Hawk is still only available as a 2080 card, so the 2080 Ti GPUs just aren't getting the attention they need, and it's probably because of the extremely limited numbers that Nvidia is able to manufacture.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on December 11, 2018, 12:40:44 PM
I will be using your guide...are there any updates to make to it?

Does it list all the tools I will also need to buy? Also wondering if it covers setting up my SSDs into RAID 1?

I also will need help setting up my new mesh router system and how to integrate it with my existing ATT modem/router.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on December 12, 2018, 06:59:57 AM
I will be using your guide...are there any updates to make to it?

Does it list all the tools I will also need to buy? Also wondering if it covers setting up my SSDs into RAID 1?

I also will need help setting up my new mesh router system and how to integrate it with my existing ATT modem/router.

The Ultra-High-End PC Assembly Guide (https://techbuyersguru.com/pc-builders-guides-assembling-ultra-high-end-pc-2016) covers most of the information you'll need to know. It discusses set up of a SATA-based SSD RAID0, so you may need to extrapolate a bit to set up the PCIe-based system. The motherboard manual should provide decent instructions. By the way, you don't want RAID1.

The mesh router is easy - just plug its Ethernet cable into the existing ATT router, turn it on, and load the smartphone app to set it up. Much easier than old-school routers.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on December 12, 2018, 11:01:37 AM
Didn't we discuss the OS running on one 970 Pro and then Raid1 the other two?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on December 12, 2018, 11:05:02 AM
Didn't we discuss the OS running on one 970 Pro and then Raid1 the other two?

OS on one, then you RAID0 the other two. RAID1 is for data duplication. Not a very useful setup nowadays.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on December 12, 2018, 11:10:54 AM
Ah. Raid0 just makes it like one big drive. Then I have my big raid1 20tb vault for media...  8)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on December 18, 2018, 02:25:53 PM
https://www.eteknix.com/evga-teases-the-rtx-2080-ti-kingpin-edition-video-card/
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on December 24, 2018, 08:54:43 PM
Forget the Kingpin, the EVGA Hybrid is here (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1450343-REG/evga_11g_p4_2384_kr_geforce_rtx_2080_ti.html/BI/20077/KBID/13837/kw/EV11GP42384K/DFF/d10-v21-t1-x935469)!

Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on December 24, 2018, 09:02:48 PM
Oh snap, and before the end of the year...Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on December 24, 2018, 11:23:49 PM
Before I buy, what do you make of the power limitations of the 2080 ti cards as detailed in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORJfhlTAgfU
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on December 25, 2018, 12:00:12 AM
Before I buy, what do you make of the power limitations of the 2080 ti cards as detailed in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORJfhlTAgfU

I'm not at all moved. He's just jabbering on. Yes, there's a power limitation, but that's true of the air-cooled model, and guess what: having one bottleneck is better than having two. Liquid-cooling the GPU means there's only one limitation to clock speeds, and it's power.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on December 25, 2018, 12:46:37 AM
I just so happened to have a sudden windfall, so I purchased the hybrid and what do you, know I splurged for the Optane after all, because why not? I did use the links from your build to support the sight. :)

Should I upgrade to the current SDM motherboard for the PCI-e slots spacing or will the one I have here now work just as well? This is the one I have:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077Y832BD/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on December 25, 2018, 12:16:25 PM
I just so happened to have a sudden windfall, so I purchased the hybrid and what do you, know I splurged for the Optane after all, because why not? I did use the links from your build to support the sight. :)

Should I upgrade to the current SDM motherboard for the PCI-e slots spacing or will the one I have here now work just as well? This is the one I have:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077Y832BD/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Congrats on the sudden windfall and scoring the new gear, and thanks for supporting TBG. Your SDM is now complete! Definitely don't replace the motherboard - it's totally awesome! Gigabyte has a very cool web utility to help you configure the ports and slots. Check it out here (https://www.gigabyte.com/FileUpload/global/MicroSite/473/x299.html). It hasn't been updated for newer processors, but the 7900X configuration is accurate for higher-level processors as well.

Note that to connect your two RTX 2080 Ti cards, you'll need an NV-Link bridge, and for this board, it has to be a 3-slot version, not a 4-slot. Right now the best deal is on the Asus-branded 3-slot bridge (https://www.amazon.com/GeForce-Nvlink-Bridge-Graphic-ROG-NVLINK-3/dp/B07KKPWQ5P/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1545768453&sr=1-2-fkmr2&keywords=3-slot+nv-link+bridge&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=28985a95411ec6686929bf1979f2ad76&language=en_US).

Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on December 31, 2018, 03:34:11 PM
Hi hi!

So I'm on the phone with a local custom computer shop to help me build it. The guy looked up the parts and the corsair 540 case and said he was concerned about it, that it was too small. I assured him that you had recommended it but he was still skeptical. He said especially with the liquid cooling that if the inside gets too hot that it could melt the liquid cooler rubber hoses causing a leak and wrecking the whole thing, says he's seen it happen.

I also mentioned running the OS off the Optane and using the 3 M2 drives in RAID 0 for local game storage and he recommended using RAID 5 instead in case one of them fails. I said it didn't really matter since I will just be able to re download the games from Steam or wherever and that the chances of an SSD failing are slim but he said he's still seen it happen. RAID 5 would reduce my storage space from 3 tb to 2 tb, which is still a lot for games but what do you think...is he right to be concerned or just overly cautious.

I also mentioned that we are modifying the case to be on the side. What would normally be the right side output fan is now going to be on the bottom and will be the single intake fan. The CPU cooler with the 3 fans will blow out the front and then we will hook up the liquid cooler fan from the GPU to blow out the rear. Is this accurate?

Edit: I notice your recent SDM builds no longer list getting new thermal paste...that goes on the CPU before attaching the liquid cooling block right?

I asked if I could be present to help with the build which they ordinarily wouldn't do but he understands with such a high end build why I'd want to be present and will allow it. I plan to read up on the whole process so I can be of the most help and least hindrance and also so I don't waste labor hours I'm paying for with dumb questions. Is there anything you would recommend I know or ask for specifically in terms of how the build should be put together? I don't want to trust just anyone with such high end parts in such a compact case! However this company is highly reviewed and the guy on the phone did seem experienced with high end builds. I will be sure to send pics once it's all together!

Happy New Year btw...glad to see the site growing!

 
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on December 31, 2018, 04:04:07 PM
Hi hi!

So I'm on the phone with a local custom computer shop to help me build it. The guy looked up the parts and the corsair 540 case and said he was concerned about it, that it was too small. I assured him that you had recommended it but he was still skeptical. He said especially with the liquid cooling that if the inside gets too hot that it could melt the liquid cooler rubber hoses causing a leak and wrecking the whole thing, says he's seen it happen.

I also mentioned running the OS off the Optane and using the 3 M2 drives in RAID 0 for local game storage and he recommended using RAID 5 instead in case one of them fails. I said it didn't really matter since I will just be able to re download the games from Steam or wherever and that the chances of an SSD failing are slim but he said he's still seen it happen. RAID 5 would reduce my storage space from 3 tb to 2 tb, which is still a lot for games but what do you think...is he right to be concerned or just overly cautious.

I also mentioned that we are modifying the case to be on the side. What would normally be the right side output fan is now going to be on the bottom and will be the single intake fan. The CPU cooler with the 3 fans will blow out the front and then we will hook up the liquid cooler fan from the GPU to blow out the rear. Is this accurate?

I asked if I could be present to help with the build which they ordinarily wouldn't do but he understands with such a high end build why I'd want to be present and will allow it. I plan to read up on the whole process so I can be of the most help and least hindrance and also so I don't waste labor hours I'm paying for with dumb questions. Is there anything you would recommend I know or ask for specifically in terms of how the build should be put together? I don't want to trust just anyone with such high end parts in such a compact case! However this company is highly reviewed and the guy on the phone did seem experienced with high end builds. I will be sure to send pics once it's all together!

Happy New Year btw...glad to see the site growing!

A couple of thoughts on this:

(1) to be clear, I never recommended the Corsair 540 for this build, I only stated that it could be used. I in fact do not recommend it for the Supreme Dream Machine, but you had space constraints.

(2) with that said, the coolant tubes most definitely will not melt when used in a Corsair 540 if assembled and set up correctly. And by correctly, I mean with fans set to high RPMs. If you were expecting this system to be really quiet, well, that was expecting a bit too much. But the fact is that the system will work a whole lot better with liquid cooling than with air cooling. It just has to be set up correctly. The fact that your builder has seen melted hoses just speaks to the fact that some people don't set up their systems correctly or want their systems to run fast with no noise, which doesn't work.

(3) SSDs: yes, he's right that an SSD failure will cause a RAID failure, and he's right that SSDs fail. Period. But game files are simply not mission critical data, and there's no reason to spend $350 (the cost of a single 970 Pro) to set up RAID5 to protect these game files. They aren't worth anything more than your time to reinstall them, frankly. If an SSD fails, you'll still need to remove and replace the drive, which is the more time-consuming factor.

(4) radiator setup: this was was something I set out for you back in April, and it's not what you stated above. Here's what I determined:

Step 1: remove the Carbide 540's front fans and mount the GPU radiators on with fans blowing through them and out the front
Step 2: mount the Corsair H100i v2 to the top of the case, again with fans blowing through and out, such that this hot air is exhausted out the side (as your case will be on its side)
Step 3: reverse the direction of the stock 140mm rear fan so it acts as an intake from the rear of your cabinet. This fan should be set to maximum speed at all times (i.e., PWM fan control should not be on)

Note that this does assume that each of the fan/radiator locations actually has access to fresh air (i.e., it's not up against the side of a cabinet). If you try to run this system with fans blocked by your cabinet, that would most definitely lead to system failure.

The beauty of DIY PCs is that you can set up a system that is unlike anything you can buy off the shelf. The challenge is that sometimes you have to make some compromises along the way!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on December 31, 2018, 04:34:44 PM
1. Well it's semantics I suppose but when I asked you what would work that was your rec. ;)

2. Hm, well you did say liquid cooling would be more quiet than air cooling.

3. Good call!

4. Ok, hm. So I only have one GPU with a cooler which has one fan. So that will be blowing out the front. The CPU cooler has 3 fans which will now blow out the right side. The intake fan is now going to be in back, which yes is going to be back inside the cabinet next to the wall. Air will get in of course but it's not going to be wholly unobstructed...

The part I was confused about it there is yet another fan vent...over the power supply... normally this would be on the right side but in this case it will be on the bottom. I am planning to add rubber feet to raise this new bottom off the floor and we discussed IIRC setting this CPU vent to suck air in as a second intake (which is why I bought a magnetic ultra fine dust cover...). Is this still correct? The front and now-side fans will be blowing out unobstructed...I guess a secondary effect will be I get feet warming air!

Now you are making me wonder though if I shouldn't just bite the bullet and get a full tower and have it off to the side where it will be rather unsightly and in the way to a degree. :/

5. Did you see my last post edit about the thermal paste?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on December 31, 2018, 04:43:23 PM
Or hm...does the Power Supply vent have to blow out?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on December 31, 2018, 04:47:48 PM
Ha, ha, yes, I recommended the Air 540 to meet your specific needs, but not because it's the ideal SDM case!

Liquid cooling will DEFINITELY be quieter than air cooling, but only at load. I'm sitting next to a liquid-cooled 9900K/1080Ti machine right now, and it is not silent as I type this. But it's barely any louder when at full load.

And you are right, the setup is a bit different than we proposed, as you now have a bigger cpu cooler (triple fan instead of dual fan), and a "smaller" GPU cooler (just one radiator instead of two).  But you should actually set up the triple-fan radiator in the front of the case and the smaller GPU radiator on the side.

The side vent is of no consequence - it's only used by the power supply and cannot be used for general case or CPU cooling.

The thermal paste recommendation is still in the guide, actually. Grizzly Kryonaut (https://www.amazon.com/Thermal-Grizzly-Kryonaut-Grease-Paste/dp/B011F7W3LU/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1546301057&sr=8-2&keywords=grizzly+kryonaut&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=b24f332204890c43536cf95d1958d62c&language=en_US).

Now, to be honest, if the back of that cabinet doesn't have much airflow, you're going to be putting your system under a lot of stress. You could always see how it goes (and by that I mean CLOSELY monitor temps during gaming, not just see if it goes up in smoke). You could then move the system to a larger case if you can't maintain GPU temps under 80C and CPU temps under 90C.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on December 31, 2018, 05:05:56 PM
So the power supply vent is intake or outflow?

To be clear it's not a cabinet. Just a wall nook. The back of the computer will be 2-3 inches from the wall... is that enough?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on December 31, 2018, 09:17:15 PM
So the power supply vent is intake or outflow?

To be clear it's not a cabinet. Just a wall nook. The back of the computer will be 2-3 inches from the wall... is that enough?

The power supply fan is always an intake, and it exhausts out the rear. Your setup sounds good for that.

Is the back of the nook open or flush against the wall? You said 2-3", but if the nook is flush, then it's essentially a closed box, so the space wouldn't help much.

Happy new year to you - glad you were able to get all your gear in 2018, 2019 is the year you enjoy it!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on December 31, 2018, 09:22:03 PM
2-3 inches away from the wall in the corner.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on January 01, 2019, 08:16:26 AM
2-3 inches away from the wall in the corner.

That should be fine. As long as there's a source of fresh air that's sufficient to feed the single 140mm fan, it will work. A 1/2" gap wouldn't be enough, but more than an inch away from the wall is sufficient.

By the way, thanks for your support of the site in 2018. Things were pretty rough there for a while, and I was thinking I might have to shut down the site in 2019. Luckily, readership and sales picked up during the Fall, and it looks like 2019 could be a better year than 2018.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on January 01, 2019, 07:02:33 PM
Well I am very grateful for your helpful resources and awesome response time and presence on the boards!

Here are some photos of the nook where the cube will fit on the side...

(https://i.postimg.cc/44BfqMsr/20190101-000503.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mZX48HS4/20190101-000524.jpg)

It's going back in the corner. Right now I have some blackout cloth to hide the power strip but I'll take that off when I slide the cube in. The "cabinet" as you can see is just a plank sitting on some cinder blocks so lots of air will be able to be sucked back in through there, though I will definitely have to keep an eye on the magnetic dust filter in the back!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on January 01, 2019, 08:39:53 PM
Yes, that should be fine, as long as the cinder block isn't right up against the wall. It will look good there, might even look a bit like another subwoofer!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on January 03, 2019, 02:37:52 PM
So the power supply intake is going to be on the bottom. I got some rubber feet but they are only maybe a quarter inch tall. Will that be enough clearance to get the air in from underneath? these are the feet:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00032Q30Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I should probably get a second dust filter for the back intake too.

Good news is the cinder block is like 4 inches from the wall...I don't think airflow will be an issue.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on January 03, 2019, 03:16:25 PM
So the power supply intake is going to be on the bottom. I got some rubber feet but they are only maybe a quarter inch tall. Will that be enough clearance to get the air in from underneath? these are the feet:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00032Q30Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I should probably get a second dust filter for the back intake too.

Good news is the cinder block is like 4 inches from the wall...I don't think airflow will be an issue.

Those rubber feet are fine. The PSU doesn't typically pull that much air in - it will be in zero-fan mode most of the time anyway.

You can get a dust filter for the rear if it tends to be dusty back there. I think the one for the floor is more critical though.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on January 03, 2019, 03:18:53 PM
I'm still negotiating with the guy I hope will help me build it. I explained the fan situation to him. His main concern is he doesn't want to drill holes into the case to make it all fit the way I want. I keep telling him it should all fit but he's never worked with this case before.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on January 03, 2019, 03:26:54 PM
I'm still negotiating with the guy I hope will help me build it. I explained the fan situation to him. His main concern is he doesn't want to drill holes into the case to make it all fit the way I want. I keep telling him it should all fit but he's never worked with this case before.

Easy solution: build it yourself! ;)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on January 03, 2019, 03:38:19 PM
We discussed that...given the expense of the components and the complexity involved as well as the cramped nature of the case, you did say this was an exception to the DIY advice you would normally give. I also know it will take me a LOT longer to DIM, because at every step I am going to be looking things up and going slower with it. I can also see myself running into issues fitting it all in and managing the cables.

Do you think drilling will be necessary?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on January 03, 2019, 06:47:15 PM
Drilling absolutely should not be necessary.

Here's my take: yes, it will take you time to build, but you've been thinking about this (and buying the components) for months, so what's a few more days or weeks? I think you'll be able to handle it if you just take your time and think through things a few steps ahead. I can also try to help you figure out the basic order of things. If you end up going the DIY route, I'll type that out here in the forum.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on January 03, 2019, 08:03:45 PM
Yes I know the basics of plugging things in...

My main concerns are:

1. Making everything fit right.
2. Installing and getting the software to run...I don't even understand most of the terms and jargon, so it's intimidating.
3. The liquid cooling and fan controls.
4. Cable management and making it look clean and professional.
5. Figuring out how to safely overclock, which again, is something I know practically zero about...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on January 03, 2019, 10:11:35 PM
Yes I know the basics of plugging things in...

My main concerns are:

1. Making everything fit right.
2. Installing and getting the software to run...I don't even understand most of the terms and jargon, so it's intimidating.
3. The liquid cooling and fan controls.
4. Cable management and making it look clean and professional.
5. Figuring out how to safely overclock, which again, is something I know practically zero about...

Think of it this way: the most important part is getting everything to fit. You don't need "pro" cable management, and if if you did, it's just a matter of taking time to do it. Sort of like tying a really nice knot. Anyone can probably do it if they take the time. But it's not necessary. Same with overclocking - that's something to save for much later, once you're totally comfortable with the machine. As for software and fan controls, that is all stuff you can learn once the system is running.

So, basically, set out your parts, determine where they'll go in the case, and start your build. I would read this TBG guide (https://techbuyersguru.com/pc-builders-guides-assembling-ultra-high-end-pc-2016?page=0), as I think it will make you feel much more comfortable with the process of building an ultra-high-end PC.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on January 04, 2019, 12:47:50 AM
I started reading that and already on the second page about laying out the case and planning where and how to mount everything I'm intimidated. It would be a lot to understand even with a normal case but getting everything to fit into such a cramped case with my giant hands and fingers is going to be even more tough. I don't even understand all the parts of a case anymore. As for pro cable management if I'm going to have all these high end parts it should look super spiffy no? I don't have any of the tools here either, like the mini screwdriver. There is also installation of the OS. Overall I would feel MUCH more comfortable with the in-person help of an experienced person, whether I have to pay for it, or if I can find a suitable volunteer.

For overclocking, what do you mean by comfortable with the machine? 

Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on January 04, 2019, 08:33:46 AM
I started reading that and already on the second page about laying out the case and planning where and how to mount everything I'm intimidated. It would be a lot to understand even with a normal case but getting everything to fit into such a cramped case with my giant hands and fingers is going to be even more tough. I don't even understand all the parts of a case anymore. As for pro cable management if I'm going to have all these high end parts it should look super spiffy no? I don't have any of the tools here either, like the mini screwdriver. There is also installation of the OS. Overall I would feel MUCH more comfortable with the in-person help of an experienced person, whether I have to pay for it, or if I can find a suitable volunteer.

For overclocking, what do you mean by comfortable with the machine?

Yes, you would be more comfortable having someone else build it, that doesn't mean you couldn't do it yourself! And the Air 540 isn't actually a small case, it's mid-sized, and the only thing "big" about your PC are the two radiators, which is a minor part of the building process. Everything else will go together just like a regular PC. So yes, there are a few hard steps, but the overall build isn't that different from a regular PC.

Overclocking is not part of build a PC, it's part of tuning it. I doubt the builder would do that for you as a standard procedure on a build. And my point is that you don't need to overclock for the PC to run!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on January 04, 2019, 12:46:12 PM
Lol, you REALLY want me to DIY...

Isn't the point of all the water cooling to allow for higher overclocking?  8)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on January 04, 2019, 01:25:44 PM
Lol, you REALLY want me to DIY...

Isn't the point of all the water cooling to allow for higher overclocking?  8)

Build PC, test PC, overclock PC, in that order. ;)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on January 04, 2019, 01:35:32 PM
Well I won't have all my parts here for another couple weeks anyway, so that gives me time to find some help. :)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on January 09, 2019, 05:11:52 PM
https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/01/09/asus-reveals-liquid-and-air-cooled-rog-matrix-rtx-2080-ti-ces-2019?abthid=5c36877759d4788579000c8f

Better than my EVGA Hybrid?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on January 10, 2019, 07:22:06 AM
https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/01/09/asus-reveals-liquid-and-air-cooled-rog-matrix-rtx-2080-ti-ces-2019?abthid=5c36877759d4788579000c8f

Better than my EVGA Hybrid?

Absolutely not. In fact, this may just be a publicity stunt, as it's very unlikely this card would perform any better than a standard air-cooled card. The claim that it performs almost as well as having an external 240mm radiator is simply absurd
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on January 10, 2019, 03:13:35 PM
Yeah I think it just means it will be quieter.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on January 10, 2019, 03:20:53 PM
Yeah I think it just means it will be quieter.

Sure, in the sense that it doesn't really need much of a pump. But it won't be quieter than an air cooler, and yet it's unlikely to perform much better, while cost a lot more.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on January 28, 2019, 12:35:52 PM
Building it today. Finally.  ;D
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on January 28, 2019, 12:47:46 PM
Building it today. Finally.  ;D

Good luck! If you have any questions, feel free to check in!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 02, 2019, 08:39:33 PM
Here she is! I have dubbed her "The Beast"!

I ended up paying an expert to build her who would allow me to sit in and help and oh boy and I glad I did!

Turned out to be quite a challenging build...the PNY card was so long it blocked one of the CPU cooler radiator fans...and I just barely missed the return cutoff for it. The EVGA was shorter. So we took the third to add one more intake fan that sucks air in and blows it over the PNY GPU. Then we have the intake fan from the back for a total of two intakes and then 2 fans on the CPU radiator and the one from the Hybrid GPU going out.

In order to fit both GPUs on the motherboard with the SLI spacing there was only one way to install them, meaning the Optane could only fit into one specific slot between them and still function. Unfortunately with the PNY GPU in the lower slot it actually covered up most of the power plug ins on the motherboard as well as the connectors for the USB ports on the front of the case meaning I can only use the USB ports on the back. Not a big deal in the end but yeah...not only would I have REALLY struggled on this on my own it would have taken me WAY longer. Including getting all the software installed and setup from start to finish the build took 12 hours total though he was cool and only charged me for 9. I would have been so lost on my own.

My one concern is that the feet I attached to make the new bottom are rather stubby, leaving only a tiny crack above the floor for the Power Supply intake...should I buy taller feet, or will they be ok? The computer is sitting only 3/16" above the floor and the Power Supply grill is located all the way in the far back corner...

Anyway, here she is...The Beast!!! And look how she fits perfectly into my setup!!!

(https://i.postimg.cc/c4RyDYFn/20190130-141812.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/FHhtwR6n/20190202-023415.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wjFKzz8x/20190202-004317.jpg)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on February 02, 2019, 09:25:13 PM
That. Is. Awesome.

Welcome to the pantheon of the PC Gaming Elite, TekHed. I totally understand needing some help with this build. It was pretty complex and the finished products looks great.

With that said, I think I see one oversight: you have a free USB 3.0 header clearly visible in the photo you posted, just below the 24-pin motherboard cable, which you can of course use to connect your front panel USB ports!

As for the feet you've added to the case, I believe the power supply will be OK. It doesn't actually sit flush against the case panel, so it can pull air in from the case itself. Just monitor the temperature of the air blowing out the back of it when you're gaming to make sure it's not getting too hot.

So, how does it run? Like a dream?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 02, 2019, 09:34:09 PM
wait, what now? I can connect USB where??? Can you draw a circle around the place to plug it in?

And air comes in from the back and wall side and blows out through front and cinder block side.

As for how it runs... I can say that the Optane drive makes it boot up in under 30 seconds, but I haven't actually played any games yet. I installed Steam, Origin, and GOG on the 970 Pro drives (RAID 0) and am currently still waiting for my games to download/install. Works nice with the TP-Link Deco. :)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on February 02, 2019, 09:41:38 PM
Here you go:

(https://techbuyersguru.com/sites/default/files/pictures/TheGallery/TekHedSDM/TekHed%27s%20Machine.jpg?s92378d1549172435)

Report back on how your games run - they should be beyond flawless!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 02, 2019, 10:16:50 PM
Yeah...I figured it out before I saw your post...conveniently labeled! When he did the cable management the guy helping me tucked in under but I quickly figured out how to thread it through and plug it in...I wonder how he missed that!!!

In other silly news, I bought Doom from Steam, as I intend it to be my first game played on The Beast in honor of one of my first childhood gaming experiences. But then I remembered I had already bought the colector's edition and had the disk so I cancelled the purchase on Steam...then I realized that I have no optical drive to install the disk..d'oh! So I repurchased it and it's queued up for installation now.  :P
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 06, 2019, 10:06:27 AM
May have hit my first snag...

I wanted to check if the SLI was working so I went into the Nvidia control panel and...there wasn't even an option given for SLI! Just Surround anmd Physex, where normally SLI control would be.

I did some digging on the net and others have had this issue...apparently not all of the PCI lanes will allow for SLI...and the only way we could fit everything in was in those specific slots. I looked at the manual for the motherboard and it looks like the top slot where the EVGA is is runnning x16 and the bottom slot where the PNY is only runs at x8.

Could this be the cause of the issue? Would hate to find out that I bought a $1,500 paperweight. Help!!!  :'(
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on February 06, 2019, 10:18:20 AM
Here's a new slogan I just came up with: digging on the net will typically just dig you a hole!

So, there is a problem with your setup, but it's not that the slot is x8, it's that it's x4, which doesn't support SLI. Somehow you ended up with the wrong NVLink bridge, so yes, that is in fact a paperweight, and not a very good one, because it's super light!

You need to have your video card in the slot where your Optane drive is, and then you need to move the Optane drive to the empty slot above it (you could also put it in the empty slot that will become available once you shift the PNY card up, but that will block the PNY's first fan).

Remember how I said it was critical that you have a dual slot card in the top slot, which is why I liked the EVGA Hybrid model so much? This is the reason. There is only one possible setup for SLI on the Gigabyte board (and most boards), and to use it along with Optane, you needed at least one of your GPUs to be dual-slot, rather than triple-slot.

The good news is that the only thing you need is a new NVLink bridge: this EVGA 3-slot model (https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-Bridge-Spacing-100-2W-0029-LR/dp/B07HZFTNFQ/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1549476964&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=EVGA+3-slot+model+nv-link&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=94855da8497becbd645b37b25f4193c1&language=en_US).
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 06, 2019, 10:27:14 AM
Ah. So the 3 slot is horter allowing me to move the lower card and optane up a slot?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 06, 2019, 10:36:39 AM
Ok...I purchased the new bridge and it should be here on Friday. Query: Is it as simple as removing the bridge, taking out the optane and PNY, plugging them into the new slots, putting the bridge back on, and turning the computer back on? Or will I have to do any changes on the software side once things are in the new slots? Will the computer just detect the new slots? Since the OS is on the Optane will it just run automatically off the new slot?

Edit: The first game I decided to play is Doom 2016...I've heard this game doesn't really support SLI anyway but I'm pleased to report that even with one 2080ti it's running buttery smooth with every possible setting set to ultra... :)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on February 06, 2019, 10:51:21 AM
Yup, that's right - the bridge was really the issue in this build, not the motherboard itself. So the 3-slot bridge will allow you to move the Optane and PNY up one slot each.

Good question on moving the boot drive - the UEFI should detect that the PCIe boot drive is in another slot and boot it normally, but if not, we'll just need to make a change in the UEFI settings.

And you're correct, DOOM does not support SLI very well. You can see my benchmarks right here (https://techbuyersguru.com/taking-4k-gaming-limit-gtx-1080-ti-sli?page=3). Specifically, it's the Vulkan rendering option that doesn't actually support SLI at all - OpenGL does, but it's the slower engine because it while it sort of supports SLI, it can't cope with CPUs with more than 4 cores (which today is all of them!).

In short, don't worry, a single RTX 2080 Ti will max that game out without issue (you'll hit about 120fps at 4K, which of course is more than your current monitor will support). DOOM uses an incredibly efficient game engine, and yes, you should use the Vulkan rendering option in the graphics menu. So go ahead and play that game while you wait on the new bridge to arrive. It's no problem to leave the other 2080 Ti in the system unused. It will just be idling.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 06, 2019, 11:42:02 AM
Next question...

Been chatting with the guy who helped me build it.

He is saying that he originally tried to install the Optane Drive in slot 2 (the one you want me to move it to when I bump the PNY from slot 4 to 3), but that it wouldn't detect the Optane drive in that slot in the BIOS. I watched him do this. Once he put the Optane into slot 3 it was detected and we could install windows on it. Any idea why this would be happening? Ideally I can just plug the Optane into slot 2, because otherwise in slot 4 it will block the PNY intake fan as you mentioned. I'd have to rejigger the whole thing and put Optane in slot 1, but that will require moving the fans on the radiator as well because the PNY is too long and blocks a fan from being wherever it is placed...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on February 06, 2019, 12:08:14 PM
Then try it the Optane in slot six, the last slot on the board. You can (and should) try this right now by removing the PNY card. It could be that the second slot is using the same PCIe lanes as one of the M.2 slots. Don't worry too much about the PNY's cooling - just be glad it's a dual-slot card!

In any event, you can't rejigger it any other way. The video cards will only work in the first and fourth slots. Your builder would likely know that a graphics card can't be installed in a PCIe x4 slot which is where the PNY is right now. You can see these labels silkscreened right on the motherboard - maybe he missed that. You must use either x16 or x8 for a graphics card.

That last PCIe slot is a PCIe x8 slot, which will absolutely support the Optane drive.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 06, 2019, 02:47:02 PM
Ok, optane is in slot 6 and the computer booted up fine and both cards are still recognized. Evga is in 1 and 2 slots and pny is in 4 and 5. Will be able to connect them with new bridge on Friday. The Optane is right up against the pny Gans and blocking them though.

I also just noticed that the fan on the Evga isn't working/on. The liquid radiator fan is just not the one on the card...any reason why?

Can you verify that the Optane won't work with the number 3 slot in between, or if maybe he missed something? I think it would be more ideal than blocking the PNY fans...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on February 06, 2019, 03:19:09 PM
Ok, optane is in slot 6 and the computer booted up fine and both cards are still recognized. Evga is in 1 and 2 slots and pny is in 4 and 5. Will be able to connect them with new bridge on Friday. The Optane is right up against the pny Gans and blocking them though.

I also just noticed that the fan on the Evga isn't working/on. The liquid radiator fan is just not the one on the card...any reason why?

Can you verify that the Optane won't work with the number 3 slot in between, or if maybe he missed something? I think it would be more ideal than blocking the PNY fans...

Always in the fine print!

Quote
The PCIEX4_1 slot shares bandwidth with the M2M_32G connector. The PCIEX4_1 slot becomes unavailable when a device is installed in the M2M_32G connector.

Source (https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X299-DESIGNARE-EX-rev-10#sp).

M2M_32G is in fact the middle (long) M.2 slot, which sits underneath your EVGA video card. I'm sure that one of your 970 Pro SSDs is in there.

So, just leave it as is - you know it will work, since you've tested it!

By the way, I can't quite remember if you got two 970 Pros or three. If you had only two, you could have installed them in the upper M.2 slot next to the CPU and the lower M.2 slot at the bottom of the board, which would have allowed you to use the second PCIe slot for something else. If you have three M.2 drives, well, then your current setup is the ONLY option, because you've maxed out your system's bandwidth! Hey, you wanted a Supreme Dream Machine, and that comes with pushing it to the max, right?!?
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 06, 2019, 04:57:54 PM
Hm. So when you say the middle slot you mean slot 3? And yeah I have 3 M.2 drive. After disk utility I have 2.78 TB of blazing fast SSD. After installing all of my games I have about 1.34 TB left. :)

I think one thing I can do is switch the EVGA hybrid to slots 4 and 5 and move the PNY to slots 1 and 2, but I'll have to move one of the radiator fans to do so.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on February 06, 2019, 05:34:46 PM
Hm. So when you say the middle slot you mean slot 3? And yeah I have 3 M.2 drive. After disk utility I have 2.78 TB of blazing fast SSD. After installing all of my games I have about 1.34 TB left. :)

I think one thing I can do is switch the EVGA hybrid to slots 4 and 5 and move the PNY to slots 1 and 2, but I'll have to move one of the radiator fans to do so.

Ah, yes, you're right, you can swap the EVGA and PNY cards, but that's a huge amount of work and could actually make things worse. You won't be able to exhaust your EVGA out the top anymore, and in fact I don't think you'll have anywhere to mount the radiator.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 06, 2019, 08:15:03 PM
Well...I tried. The problem is the PNY is too long and so it means I can only have two of the three CPU radiator fans mounted. We took one of them and mounted it as a second intake blowing over the PNY (and now the Optane in front of the PNY).

So what I tried to do was move the middle 2 position CPU cooler fan into the 3rd  position on the radiator (O_O insteads of OO_ like it is now) so that I could put the PNY where the EVGA is currently... but it didn't work. The damn PNY is so big that it can only fit where it is and the fans have to be where they are.

I am considering selling the PNY on Craigslist for around $1,000 and then eating the $300 difference to get one of these (https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-11G-P4-2281-KR-GeForce-Gaming-Retail/dp/B07KSPW8HQ/ref=asc_df_B07KSPW8HQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=320277925145&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1874084964424131972&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032001&hvtargid=pla-630448161484&th=1) shorter ones instead...would that work?

That way I could put all three out fans over the radiator again.

What do you think? I know it's not strictly necessary but it would look better and more symmetrical, I'd get better CPU cooling and the power cables wouldn't be sandwiched between the end of the PNY right up into and directly on the CPU radiator Grill.

If you think it's a good idea I can use your link if it helps you. :)
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on February 06, 2019, 09:08:21 PM
Well...I tried. The problem is the PNY is too long and so it means I can only have two of the three CPU radiator fans mounted. We took one of them and mounted it as a second intake blowing over the PNY (and now the Optane in front of the PNY).

So what I tried to do was move the middle 2 position CPU cooler fan into the 3rd  position on the radiator (O_O insteads of OO_ like it is now) so that I could put the PNY where the EVGA is currently... but it didn't work. The damn PNY is so big that it can only fit where it is and the fans have to be where they are.

I am considering selling the PNY on Craigslist for around $1,000 and then eating the $300 difference to get one of these (https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-11G-P4-2281-KR-GeForce-Gaming-Retail/dp/B07KSPW8HQ/ref=asc_df_B07KSPW8HQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=320277925145&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1874084964424131972&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032001&hvtargid=pla-630448161484&th=1) shorter ones instead...would that work?

That way I could put all three out fans over the radiator again.

What do you think? I know it's not strictly necessary but it would look better and more symmetrical, I'd get better CPU cooling and the power cables wouldn't be sandwiched between the end of the PNY right up into and directly on the CPU radiator Grill.

If you think it's a good idea I can use your link if it helps you. :)

Good work attempting to rejigger it. If nothing else, all this fine-tuning is helping you learn how to assemble and disassemble your PC!

As for the RTX 2080 Ti swap, I really want to make sure you get your SLI working first. So wait for the new bridge to come in, test out the PNY in the original location, keep the Optane in the last slot, and if it all works, then I'll give you the go ahead to eat that loss! ;)

But yes, the EVGA model (https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-11G-P4-2281-KR-GeForce-Gaming-Retail/dp/B07KSPW8HQ/ref=as_li_ss_tl?&imprToken=zZxbE85YTUCf6MSSxhGgjg&slotNum=0&hvadid=320277925145&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1874084964424131972&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032001&hvtargid=pla-630448161484&th=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=a555b10b206f2501a869042832a6e8ac&language=en_US) you linked to would be a good size, and in fact I have one sitting right here in front of me waiting for some Small Form Factor tests I'm going to be running tomorrow (I'm jamming it into a SilverStone SG13 shoebox case (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MNBWRJT/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=54c44752100e4b7c840ce6ee81ec751d&language=en_US) to test thermals for my SFF readership!). With that said, for the best match with your Hybrid, you'd want to get the XC Gaming (https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-GAMING-Graphics-11G-P4-2382-KR/dp/B07GHXJW5W/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1549515687&sr=1-1&keywords=11G-P4-2382-KR&linkCode=ll1&tag=thtebusgu-20&linkId=a55569637a0316dbd1a5eb18826d530e&language=en_US), rather than the baseline Black Edition, as the factory-overclocked XC Gaming matches the clock rates of the Hybrid (and the PNY) you already have.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 09, 2019, 11:38:17 AM
Bridge installed, SLI enabled!!!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on February 09, 2019, 02:15:26 PM
Bridge installed, SLI enabled!!!

Awesome!

Now you can pick up that EVGA 2080 Ti Gaming XC we were talking about, and the best place to actually buy it is direct from EVGA (https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=11G-P4-2382-KR). They'll even throw in a free shipping and a free PowerLink cable adapter. Alas, could have scored a discount on the EVGA bridge, but that is water under the bridge, no pun intended!

By the way, I do have an EVGA affiliate code, but it works differently than an Amazon link. When you register your card (which you absolutely should), just plug this code into the "affiliate" box: 80XTSXKZE2

And just FYI, I'm testing the EVGA RTX 2080 Ti Black right now, and the cooler is fantastic. I am actually really impressed at how cool it keeps this power-hungry GPU with just two fans and such a compact size.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 14, 2019, 05:37:10 PM
So I haven't had any interest on Craigslist...I think even at a discount that marketplace just ins't high end enough. I do know someone who works at YouTube gaming but as Google employees they are paid well and I think most either already bought their high end cards, or like I was are waiting for the next best thing to drop. They did all agree I was offering a good deal on a great card...\

...any chance you might want to buy it off me? Still have the original box too!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on February 14, 2019, 06:07:19 PM
So I haven't had any interest on Craigslist...I think even at a discount that marketplace just ins't high end enough. I do know someone who works at YouTube gaming but as Google employees they are paid well and I think most either already bought their high end cards, or like I was are waiting for the next best thing to drop. They did all agree I was offering a good deal on a great card...\

...any chance you might want to buy it off me? Still have the original box too!

Ha, ha, I'm more in the business of selling than buying, and as you know, I've already got an RTX 2080 Ti (https://techbuyersguru.com/pushing-itx-gaming-limit-rtx-2080-ti-under-12-liters).

But I've got a suggestion for you: the Heatware forum marketplace (https://www.heatware.com/market). That's where I sell all my high-end gear. It's full of extremely trustworthy people, because Heatware was founded to provide rankings for second-hand traders.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 19, 2019, 05:05:00 PM
OK I posted my card up there...thanks!
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 19, 2019, 08:30:02 PM
Is my ad good?


https://www.heatware.com/for-sale/PNY-GeForce-RTX-2080-Ti-XLR8-Gaming-Overclocked-Edition-NV-Link-video-cards-3030.html

I noticed another 2080ti for $50 cheaper but maybe not quite as good as what I'm offering and with less good extras...
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: Ari Altman on February 19, 2019, 08:46:39 PM
Looks good, but I'd note that the card is $1,300 at Amazon (https://amzn.to/2TZlttE) right now. Just see what the market will bear. If you don't get any interest after 3-4 days, lower the price.
Title: Re: Building a Supreme Dream HTPC Machine
Post by: TekHed on February 19, 2019, 08:52:44 PM
I mention this in the ad...with tax that $1300 becomes  $1400...so I'm  $200 under...